[Updated] Raid Lockouts - Per Character, Per Boss

[Venesha]

I'm really enjoying the "omg terrible idea qq posts." as constructive as they are.

mind sharing exactly why you think its such a bad idea instead of just saying, omg dumb idea op retarded all posters retarded cept me i'm epic hardcore lol.

[Mord]

but you could gear up the entire raid..kill boss-give loot to lets say 3/25 people, go outside+reset, kill again then give the next 3 people lott etc.
would be bad

Are u a retard, he said if you are present at the boss kill you dont get loot the next time, that includes all 25 or 10 players preset at that boss whether they got loot or not.

[LyskaWF]

One of the things that drives guild progression is doing things first. Server first, horde/alliance first.. whatever it may be based on your guild's progression level. What you and everyone who would argue for this idea clearly do not understand is just that.

With people being able to get all the loot they want, it takes a good amount of the skill required away. If you can reset the lockout and gear up your entire raid with no time constraints, server firsts come down to whomever has the most time to farm 258 gear Every single encounter is completely trivialized by gear. That is a fact and is probably never going to change. Algalon is/was an insanely simple encounter made difficult only by the DPS requirements (inb4 1 hour/week).

If you take away the ability to farm loot, you still have the ability to keep redoing bosses. Do you have any idea how easy it would be for any guild that can kill Anub to get Insanity if they could kill him 30 times in one night?

(note: I know you are not intending this for the current tier, so bear with me on the references to this tier).

TL;DR
This idea would take away much of the competition of this game... which is why many people choose to put time into raiding. Blizzard has given you casuals SO MANY TOOLS to experience all of the content. I don't care if I see other people running around in full 245 tier, because I know that gear only takes you so far. My biggest problem with people like you complaining that this game is "too hard" is that it takes Blizzard away from making better content.

[Venesha]

ITT: complete and utter lack of reading comprehension



Again. Once a boss is down you can not get loot, you can reset and do the boss again but low and behold no loot


god reading is so freaking amazing

If you take away the ability to farm loot, you still have the ability to keep redoing bosses. Do you have any idea how easy it would be for any guild that can kill Anub to get Insanity if they could kill him 30 times in one night?

simple fix, lock the achievments for that week as well.

This idea would take away much of the competition of this game... which is why many people choose to put time into raiding. Blizzard has given you casuals SO MANY TOOLS to experience all of the content. I don't care if I see other people running around in full 245 tier, because I know that gear only takes you so far. My biggest problem with people like you complaining that this game is "too hard" is that it takes Blizzard away from making better content

nowhere in my post did i say the game was to hard. I'm perfectly content with the current level of difficulty. In all honesty i wish there was a third difficulty mode, heroic heroic if you will. I just hate getting saved to an instance needlessly, say getting pulled in for the last boss of toc cuz a dps dropped and not being able to do the first four bosses, my idea would fix that and still prevent me from getting loot off anub any more though i "could" do him again if i choose.

[Pascal]

simple fix, lock the achievments for that week as well.

This, in addition to being unable to do an instance you've already completely cleared, pretty much makes the idea solid.

Sure, the original idea wasn't perfect, but that doesn't mean some adjustments can't make it an acceptable change.

[Seere]

@ stormdash

Your replying as a casual??

Casuals have ruined this mmo and many others before it. People who dont see this are idiots. Star wars galaxies anyone?

Again.. this idea will not work because of the multitude of problems that would arise getting a group to stay together. How hard is it for most people to get a pug together, nm keep it together after a few wipes? No one likes waiting around for people to switch in.

What this post sounds like is,

i'm a casual, i only have 30 mins a night to raid. So let me randomly join a raid group down a boss, leave and join a new one tommorow.

YES it is true blizzard has made raiding easier for casuals. But NO it should not be a 10 min affair that you can log on, get free loot and log out. Patting yourself on the back because you think your good at the game.

Raiding is still a time consuming endeavour and that wont change. If you want the gear, you need to invest the time. Not complain about how you have a life and you dont want to spend it in front of a game so you should get free lootz. OR inconvience many others.

Find a casual guild and raid with them. Theirs many of them. They will fit to your schedule and accomplish what you want.

[Stormdash]

@ stormdash

Your replying as a casual??

Casuals have ruined this mmo and many others before it. People who dont see this are idiots. Star wars galaxies anyone?

"Casuals" shoulder the financial burden for World of Warcraft and the entire gaming industry. I mean the ENTIRE gaming industry, right down to the consoles and handhelds. Make no mistake -- Blizzard could bear 75% of the "hardcore" players going to jump in a lake better than it could bear 25% of its casual players getting bored. So before you get too much in a wad over how much casuals "ruin" your MMO, consider that it wouldn't exist without them. And maybe throw in a "thank you".

What this post sounds like is

Probably because you didn't bother to read it, at least not what I said -- literally nothing you respond to after this has anything to do with what I'd say or the reason I think instance lockouts are stupid. And they are stupid. I asked for a rational, coherent argument in their defense and got back "so people don't get gear" -- which is as irrational and incoherent as if you'd said "because the cat on my head says they need to lockout instances".

Raiding is still a time consuming endeavour and that wont change. If you want the gear, you need to invest the time. Not complain about how you have a life and you dont want to spend it in front of a game so you should get free lootz. OR inconvience many others.

Again, nothing to do with anything I have said. With optional instance saving, people could pound away at a raid for a MONTH to clear it, taking hours a night to flail uselessly against every boss that gives them trouble. They could do that because they are willing to put in the time and aren't having some asinine artificial deadline put on them having to start over. Or, the people who can clear it easily in 2 nights can turn around and clear it again, and turn around and clear it again.

Blizzard's approach to locking up its best content makes it eerily reminiscent of the Ally Bank commercials where an adult offers to let a kid play with a red truck, then takes it away a few seconds later in and gives him a truck-shaped piece of cardboard to play with.

[Venesha]

@ stormdash

Your replying as a casual??

Casuals have ruined this mmo and many others before it. People who dont see this are idiots. Star wars galaxies anyone?

Again.. this idea will not work because of the multitude of problems that would arise getting a group to stay together. How hard is it for most people to get a pug together, nm keep it together after a few wipes? No one likes waiting around for people to switch in.

What this post sounds like is,

i'm a casual, i only have 30 mins a night to raid. So let me randomly join a raid group down a boss, leave and join a new one tommorow.

YES it is true blizzard has made raiding easier for casuals. But NO it should not be a 10 min affair that you can log on, get free loot and log out. Patting yourself on the back because you think your good at the game.

Raiding is still a time consuming endeavour and that wont change. If you want the gear, you need to invest the time. Not complain about how you have a life and you dont want to spend it in front of a game so you should get free lootz. OR inconvience many others.

Find a casual guild and raid with them. Theirs many of them. They will fit to your schedule and accomplish what you want.

People that make comments like this crack me up when are you hardcores going to learn that the hardcore vs casual mindset is moot?

How much do you pay a month for your subscription? same as everyone else. As long as we all pay the same amount then 100% of the game should be accessible to 100% of the subscribers.

you dont buy an xbox 360 wii ps3 psp or ds game and after a week of playing it have it come on with a prompt saying well you only played me for 6 hours last week so i had to limit your accessible content if youd like to see it please get your playtime up higher.

you dont have your cable company say well you only watched tv for 20 hours last week so we took away some of your channels but you still have to pay 49.99 a month like everyone else.

As long as im paying the same as you then yes i should be able to see all the content and i shouldnt have to reschedule my life to do so and im glad blizzard has the same mindset. you dont like it then enjoy not liking it because it wont change and if you think casuals are ruining the game then i suggest you just quit now because there are way more of us than there are of you and only more coming.

[serif]

I've never heard a rational, coherent argument in favor of people not "getting gear too quickly". Indeed, I have no idea what "too quickly" actually means. I think raid and instance lockouts are frankly pretty stupid (just like profession cooldowns -- completely idiotic, not intelligently defensible). So... people would sit and raid all day and get the "phat lewts" and be geared. This affects me how? This ruins my game experience how? They're putting in the work, they're getting the reward. And if someone figures out a way to 25-box ToGC 25 and gear all their characters in a week -- again, this doesn't actually affect my game experience whatsoever, so what possible reason do I have to oppose it? Unless someone actually *is* 25-boxing raids, ordinary people pugging or guild-running raids 5 times a week still may never get more than emblems out of it anyway, since neither drops nor winning rolls are a sure thing.

Basically, Blizzard's approach seems to be to take their most fun, challenging content and tell people they can't do it except very occasionally.

it'd be like having christmas every day... it'd be kickass at first, you'd be uber geared in a couple days having farmed a raid 20 times... but then what? you have all the gear, all the emblems to buy anything and everything you ever wanted. you'd just be sitting there waiting for the next content patch. which would be an excruciating 3 months away with nothing to do.

sure you could level alts, but it'd be the same story with them. playing a game with God mode on seems fun at first but then you just grow bored of not being challenged, not having that anticipation, excitement of waiting for raid reset day so you could have another lottery shot at that piece you've wanted.

and yeah there are people who don't have the time to play as much as others... then maybe you shouldn't be playing a time consuming game like wow in the first place. and its not like the most casual players can't gear up with the best of 'em... its stupidly easy to get great gear nowadays.


I like raid lockouts because it forces my guildies and i to find other things to do on off nights... like raid older content for random achievements, or work on professions, lvl alts, etc... if there were no lockouts the guild would almost feel obligated to raid ToC or ulduar over and over and over until everyone and their alt was geared... how tiresome.

the long waits and the big payoffs are what make the game exciting for me. having to trudge through ToC for 5-6 weeks before i get Death's Verdict might seem crappy at first, but finally scoring the loot would make my week! if i just got everything in one day i wouldn't be nearly as excited about it. seeing that piece of gear you wanted drop and the excitement, adrenaline rush as you start to see the rolls pouring in before you hit /roll - then seeing a 95, 98 and finally getting that piece you've had on your list for a while is awesome... but with the way you'd have it no one would care. they'd shrug off a bad roll and say to themselves 'doesn't matter, we'll be back in here in 20 minutes and i'll get it then'.

basically your post is another classic example of instant gratification. i need everything right NOW! i pay good money and i deserve to have everything i could possibly want this very instant. nevermind that this is a game that has no impact on real life whatsoever, and that people out there are actually attempting to make it 'fun' and 're-playable'... screw that crap. i pay $15.00 a month just like the best players do so i deserve to have all of the same BiS gear that they do without any effort or time invested.

I say make the game harder... what ever happened to striving for that sense of accomplishment? the pride? i guess casuals just want to milk everything they can get out of the game in a week and then move on, leaving shit for the rest of us who wanted to invest the time it should take to become successful at the game and enjoy the journey it took to get there.

TLDR, whatever, wasnt important anyway

[Jonisawsom]

Both sides have some very valid arguments. Gearing up too fast is bad, and people get bored sooner. Instance lockouts are there for this reason. Your idea has a nice way of dealing with that, in that you cannot get ANYTHING from a boss that you have already downed.

Now the problem of achievements and attempts. Achievements would need to be locked to the first attempt for everyone in the entire group. Say you are trying for Tribute to Immortality. If you die on the first boss you could just go out and reset, and that's bad. You could also just keep resetting the instance until you get it right. To fix this a good suggestion was made that once you clear an instance you cannot reset it anymore. Achievements would then need to be tied to the first lockout ID. So you can't make it to Anub, have someone die and then walk out and reset. Once a boss is downed, if you reset, you can no longer get any achievements for that instance until the weekly reset.

You would also need to have a warning if someone in your group was already saved to a run which would thus prevent your entire group from getting an achievement. Otherwise a guild could run people over and over to get certain titles or achievements etc. So if anyone in your group was saved and is running on a "reset" it would spoil achievements for the entire group. Individually though they are all still able to get loot as long as they have not downed the boss before.

Lastly attempts. The only way to get Tribute to Immortality is by farming the gear and perfecting the execution. I don't feel this is too much of an issue if certain things are implemented. As it is now a group can attempt a boss as many times as they want and choose to wipe an attempt if they want to practice it again. So being able to reset is not as big of an issue in my mind as long as they cannot get anything from that boss (loot, achievements etc).

Overall it would make things very complicated imo and I don't see it happening, though it could technically be done with the right limiting factors. I hate finding out early on that a RL is an idiot or a ninja after say the first boss of an instance but you stay in there hoping for the best. It would be more enjoyable if the group could reform without the RL, reset the place, and go on without an idiot in charge. Raiding is a time sink, and if you don't have the time for it, then I'm sorry but you probably just have to be content with the little you can get, or with the rest of the content available. So for the very small benefits it seems a like a lot of work, and open to some abuse.

[serif]

if the issue is that blizzard wants casual players to experience the same end-game content as raiders then maybe blizzard should put more emphasis on end game content that doesn't require a raid to experience.

maybe really polish up the end game quest lines so that casuals who want to log on and put in their 2 hours a week can work at their own pace, and see the content when they get to it... and put raiding on its own branch of the wow experience, rather than having raiding BE the end of the game.

its like how you can pick up call of duty today, play through it at your leisure and see everything there is to offer in the game, take in the entire performance and feel accomplished after the credits roll. THEN! if you want more and think you're up to the challenge/time investment you can try your hand playing online in against other people which requires more effort and for some people results in more satisfaction.

All i'm saying is: put more emphasis on non-raid endgame content to keep casuals busy, and leave the raiding to people who want to put in the time and effort to be good at it.

Obviously wow is a game that never stops, so this would require more frequent updates to quests and world events to keep people busy and interested. The same raiding experience would remain intact, not taking anything away from that. but it seems like nowadays people level up through WoW knowing they're going to have to raid to see the good stuff at the end, and when they discover raiding isnt what they'd want it to be, QQs follow. Just put more non-raid endgame content in. be creative about it and make a solo wow experience just as rewarding and fulfilling as a cooperative one.

The way it is right now is you ding 80, finish up some quests.... and then what? there's no big finale to it, you're either stuck at 80 screwing around doing mundane tasks to kill the time, or you're forced into raiding just to see something new. fix that somehow.

[Venesha]

I think this is starting to derail some so im going to make some clarifications here in hopes of keeping this somewhat on topic

The premise here isnt to give anyone additional shots at loot or achievments and i agree with something needing done to prevent the achievment attempts from occuring i did overlook that and apologize.

The premise is to prevent players from becoming saved to instances where bosses they were not present for are already down. essentially screwing them at a shot that week. i'll give an example.

with how things are now, say you do toc25 on monday and you down beasts and jaraxsus but have to log for bed because of work the next day. you dont get to log on tuesday so they pug someone and finish the instance. now wednesday you want to finish it but oh look youre saved to a completed instance and cant finish it up until next week.

my idea would prevent this as you could just start up with another group down beasts and jaraxsus again but since you already killed them that week you cant receive any loot or emblems. however you do down the rest of the instance and are eligible for loot off champions twins and anub. now youre saved to all bosses and cant recieve loot from any of them until the hard reset tuesday lets you start over again.

im honestly failing to see why this would be a bad setup as it doesnt change your attempts at loot for the week it just makes it to where you arent getting saved to instances you werent present for or ones that fell through for whatever reason.

[Seere]

@ stormdash

My apoligies. Only the first bit was meant for you. I forgot to put @ OP for the last parts.

Your argument doesn't work, because star wars galaxies actually lost money because their hardcore player base left. Yes it is still alive and probably has hardcore and casuals in it. But no where near what it was before the patch that f'd the game.

Also blizzards never been greedy if you noticed. Sure they are a company that cares about profits. But if they wanted to be like every other game company they would have had sc2 out by now, diablo 3 out by now and probably 5 more WoW xpacs like Sony did with EQ.

No company has figured out how to deal with casual players. They are a majority it is true. Because of that they need to make the casuals welcome. But in doing so they ruin games. Games would run without casuals. If 50% of the casuals left the MMO could still go on. Blizzard would still turn a profit.

@ Venesha

How much do you pay a month for your subscription? same as everyone else. As long as we all pay the same amount then 100% of the game should be accessible to 100% of the subscribers.

Ok, so your saying that if we both bought modern warfare. You play casually, I play hardcore. I join tournaments. Your argument would be that, you shouldn't have to play 10 hours a day to get really good and be allowed to join a tournament. Because the game should be open to everyone.

We both payed the same for the game. Playing in tournaments can be considered a part of that game. It is one of the reasons people get it after all.

Just like WoW. Raiding is that extra step that takes time to get to.

The rest of your argument doesn't make sense. Its like you forgot what this discussion is about. (but i must respond anyways). If you found a guild that raided 2 hours a night. You could still see all the content you want. If you wanted to raid the hardmode heroic content then youd need to invest more time. I was in a guild that raided 3 hours 3 times a week. It was a casual guild with my friends. I saw all the content. Nothings stopping you from seeing all the content this way either.

Your original idea was lockouts per boss. Which i've already given reasons on why it wouldn't work. Logical real reasons. My secondary discussion on why casuals are ruining the gaming industry didn't even have to be responded to.

(Pretty Much Serifs post)
Since you are a casual. Ask some of your friends in a "hardcore" guild. One thats cleared hardmode toc, yogg no keepers and algalon. How many of those people who did the progression to down those guys, are still raiding atm?

Have you thought about what getting all the gear does to you? As someone whos been in the posistion of having BiS for his guilds progression. Its not fun. You have no reason to go back raiding. If your idea was implemented. Why would I help someone like you geared up if I dont need that boss? I wouldn't show up until the boss I needed gear off of was up.

Personally I love helpign players gear up, I wouldn't be the above person. But I know most of the player base is that person. They get their BiS sets. They leave.. until the next raid comes out. Then they get invited gear up and leave. You have no goals if all the BIS is given to you as a freebie. Makes the game boring.

@ Your idea

Your idea is still flawed, What would stop a group of 9 friends with gear from their main raid from running their 10th friend or a random person through the instances over and over each week. They dont get loot or emblams sure. But they geared up their friend. Mabye they get paid for the slot. Its happened before.

In the hardcore world. Each person would have unlimited chances at a boss each week. This would screw up the hardcores fun. World firsts wouldn't count for anything. Not that you would care about their fun.

The answer to your problem is to join a casual guild. Not individual lockouts per boss.

[serif]

I think this is starting to derail some so im going to make some clarifications here in hopes of keeping this somewhat on topic

The premise here isnt to give anyone additional shots at loot or achievments and i agree with something needing done to prevent the achievment attempts from occuring i did overlook that and apologize.

The premise is to prevent players from becoming saved to instances where bosses they were not present for are already down. essentially screwing them at a shot that week. i'll give an example.

with how things are now, say you do toc25 on monday and you down beasts and jaraxsus but have to log for bed because of work the next day. you dont get to log on tuesday so they pug someone and finish the instance. now wednesday you want to finish it but oh look youre saved to a completed instance and cant finish it up until next week.

my idea would prevent this as you could just start up with another group down beasts and jaraxsus again bt since you already killed them that week you cant receive any loot or emblems. however you do down the rest of the instance and are eligible for loot of champions twins and anub. now youre saved to all bosses and cant recieve loot from any of them until the hard reset tuesday lets you start over again.

im honestly failing to see why this would be a bad setup as it soesnt change your attempts at loot for the week it just makes it to where you arent getting saved to instances you werent present for or ones that fell through for whatever reason.

yeah im pretty sure im on the same page with you on all of that. after hearing about the new LFG system, what you've described here doesn't really sound like that much of a stretch.

one thing that someone might QQ about (maybe someone already has) would be something like this. imagine you have a hardcore guild that runs thru toc25 once... then they take turns switching in 5 of their alts at a time. sure the 20 others wouldn't be able to get any loot but its the express lane to gearing up their alts super quick if they repeat the process all week. Or another would be like having free practice sessions on bosses, sure you wouldn't get any loot but you could keep practicing on the bosses over and over... really though i doubt that would happen much, and even if it did so what. An easy way to fix it would be to say once you've completed the instance you are completely locked out until hard reset the following week.... this way each week you have a real shot at completing it but you can't come back once you have to exploit it - or help someone else exploit it by carrying their alts through.


something that will have to be worked out though. say theres a guy named John. he pugs toc25 and they beat the northrend beasts but wipe too much on jaraxxus and quit. later john's friend - Tim - who's in a guild asks john to come along and help them beat anub.... so john beats anub... can he still go back in yet another run and beat jaraxxus, factionchamps, and the twins? or is he done?

if you get saved to each boss individually, do you think it will sort of end up like the 'For the Horde/Alliance' achievement runs where people will only stick around until they've beaten all of the bosses that they specifically need, just to ditch when they've got what they want? Would john join another group later and get all the way up to anub just to bail because he's already saved to them?

im not trying to contend your idea or anything, just posing some questions that come to mind.

like i said, this doesn't seem too unrealistic, and i wouldn't be surprised at all to someday see something like this happen.

[serif]

No company has figured out how to deal with casual players. They are a majority it is true. Because of that they need to make the casuals welcome. But in doing so they ruin games.

/agreed


nintendo did 'casual' with the wii... now look at the hundreds of shit games they have that no one but grandparents and 6 year olds play.

gg casual gamers. yeah they're the majority but the have the attention span of a snobold. casual gamers will come into wow and QQ that its too hard, blizz will make it easy, casuals will get their epix then cancel their account... meanwhile the game stays on easy mode for the people who were there all long looking for a challenge.


exaggeration of course, but i think this feeling resonates on some level with many players. the problem is that its true, casual gamers make up the majority, and where the majority is the money is... and the problem with casual gamers are that the game can never be 'too easy' for them. they whine and cry all day long until its so easy that your dedicated fan base starts to leave. yeah this won't hurt your bottom line as a company, but its the first big step towards the end of WoW. if it becomes too casual you'll lose the whole culture built up around the game, people will be looking for the next best thing... and when the hardcore members find the next 'WoW' the casual gamers will surely follow soon after.

[mutantboy]

I think that the current system make the OP's ideas somewhat redundant.

So lets say you are very time restricted and need to gear up (I fit into this catagory)
OK so you run heroics - that gets a fair way. You do 10man VoA. You do 10man Ony. those can be done quite quickly. Once you get a bit more gear you do 10man ToC. Again your 2hour clear is very possible. Even if you get very little gear from them (emblems) you can farm ToC nightly for 219 level gear. So you don't need to do long raids to gear up.

So the only reason you need to do long raids is to see the content.

And yes it would be nice if raids like Naxx and Ulduar didn't have a single raid ID/Lockout. And I'm guessing ICC will be the same.

The only change i would make is cut them down to smaller pieces - eg: Ulduar seige + antechamber = 1x lockout, keepers on = 2nd. At least that way you could get a fail raid and still get a shot at some action the next day without trivialising the process

[mutantboy]

No company has figured out how to deal with casual players. They are a majority it is true. Because of that they need to make the casuals welcome. But in doing so they ruin games. Games would run without casuals. If 50% of the casuals left the MMO could still go on. Blizzard would still turn a profit.

Ruin games huh? So while you might think the casualness that sims and lara tombraider are is rubbish the massive number of people that play them might disagree. (yes wii sports ---> mario can be included here)

If 50% left wow it would turn into everquest - a dwindling number of people with smaller and smaller amount of gameplay and absolutly no advance in the technical aspects of gameplay. The only reason you get the wowfactor in wow is the hauge amount of money it makes - allowing Blizz to keep up with the fairly amazing architecture in places like Ulduar.

I have no doubt that Blizzard consider things like this which is why we have the shorter raids like colleseum, and this system (or similar) was used quite successfully in Lotro. Don't underestimate the power of casual gamers. Wow is very much a casual game experience now - and those of you that dont like it may find yourself excluded.

looking back to some of the statements that came from lead devs 3 years ago it's pretty obvious they thought the same way then. The same hardcore hardline attitudes existed with those devs (as hardest of the hardcore players) but those have pretty much been removed from any comments on Blizz sites. I wonder if that was the result of money (as in shut up and we pay you more) or power (shut up or we fire your ass) or just a change of heart (can't see that but you never know)

Don't be suprised if raid lockouts change. Like xfer to PvP server and Faction change - unthinkable 2 years ago

[Venesha]

I agree the idea is flawed but that's why it's on a discussion forum, to find ways to make it work without the exploits/trivializations.

id say a good fix would be to limit the amount of resets maybe have it to where you're allowed one main raid id and one reset id that way you dont get screwed but cant reset a bunch of times either.

i also agree with once you've downed all the bosses you cant reset it again.

maybe a combination of the two methods would work.

@seere

i agree with you as far as fps's go but wow isnt an fps and i dont think it has the same skill level to play so i dont think you're tournament analogy works really though i do see what you're getting at.

[Umon]

umm the OPs sudgestion is bad as some stated as it would be confusing and exploit-able...

But what about this...

U go in a raid with 10 bosses...u kill the first 3...and u get saved for the first 3 bosses...and u can continue to raid only with other people who are saved for those first 3 bosses...When the 3.3 goes live there will be plenty of people who will be in LFG and thus ensuring that there will be enuf people to continue your raid.

And if u are saved up to the 3rd boss..u can still inv those who killed just one or 2 bosses but when they enter the raid inst they are asked if they are willing to be saved up to the 3rd boss and miss out on the previous bosses...

Basicly it wouldnt have raid IDs just the saved count (# of bosses downed and what bosses were downed)



i hope u peeps understood me ;D ;D

[Pascal]

umm the OPs sudgestion is bad as some stated as it would be confusing and exploit-able...

But what about this...

U go in a raid with 10 bosses...u kill the first 3...and u get saved for the first 3 bosses...and u can continue to raid only with other people who are saved for those first 3 bosses...When the 3.3 goes live there will be plenty of people who will be in LFG and thus ensuring that there will be enuf people to continue your raid.

And if u are saved up to the 3rd boss..u can still inv those who killed just one or 2 bosses but when they enter the raid inst they are asked if they are willing to be saved up to the 3rd boss and miss out on the previous bosses...

Basicly it wouldnt have raid IDs just the saved count (# of bosses downed and what bosses were downed)



i hope u peeps understood me ;D ;D

That's like a worse version of the original idea.

It's not complicated, it's very straightforward; there are two things you need to know: 1. You cannot receive loot, emblems, or achievements from any boss you already killed in an instance. 2. You cannot redo an instance that you completely cleared.

Having people be able to join pugs with only other people who have downed the exact same amount of bosses as yourself is literally a worse version of this: it merely makes it more difficult to find another raid to continue in and clear once your PuG (or very bad guild run) failed. Instead of being able to join any pug and simply being locked out of loot, emblems, and achievements, you have to join a pug that also consists of people who have half an instance cleared, and the exact number of bosses cleared, or you can't clear that raid for the week.

The idea is not to gear up faster - you will absolutely NOT have any potential to gear up faster with this system than with the current one. Today, you clear an instance and get saved to a raid ID for a week. Hypothetically this change happens, you clear some bosses/an instance and get locked out of loot for any bosses you already did, making you kill the exact same amount of loot-giving bosses as you would if you had cleared it completely first time around.

The idea is not to exploit achievements, it's not to farm an instance, it's literally just there (and here is the important part) for people who end up in a raid that dissolves halfway through and does not finish.