GC comments on Paladins

[Saranthas]

Your being nerfed on the same reason wotf is being nerfed. To some your op and to most your just hated. To put it simply your being QQed at alot right now, most of the view on paladins other then paladins fit in to 3 categories.

Ret = no skill
Ret = no skill <-----to make myself clear i don't believe that.
Ret = no skill

this is not my opinion but ive been in a couple of ventrilos during raids an such and well.....the things you hear, ex 1

Dude 1. "dude trinket repentance"
Dude 2. "Why?
Dude 1. "cause your a fucking retard"
Dude 3 " KK thx for the tip man"


Not saying that you guys are terribly op or anything but when night elf thirteen year old huntard gets ganked its not fair so he qqs and so do all his buddy's. QQing enough equals changes most the time.

The only issue i have with retadins is your big abilities to heal and deal dmg. one of those in aspect somewhere needs to be cut down, and well we both know you dont want dmg cuts so....the only way to go is the healing. It could be worse, you could have core mechanic that fails half of the time you use it.

Basically consider the LoH nerf a blessing. They could be nerfing sheath of light instead.

Didn't they state that the LoH nerf wasn't what they ultimately wanted to do? And that it was something they considered on the PTRs but decided not to go through with? I don't think they're going to do anything to LoH at all, actually.

Other than Divine Storm, Ret's can't heal worth a damn. I honestly don't see anything wrong with Ret as it is, other than instant burst with no drawbacks. Warriors need to build rage first, rogues have finite energy, DKs have to mash 2 buttons...etc.

I think the inc. nerf is probably geared toward Prot more than anything else, but I'm sure every spec is going to be looked at by Blizz. Holy, imo, could use some actual buffs as far as pvp goes.

[Ronark]

Poisons? Generally Wound and Mind Numbing in a battle ground. Neither do a lot of damage. Shields? I must learn that at the trainer then... Vanish... well considering its terrible, I wouldn't really list it as a rogue ability.

If you can't keep yourself up against a rogue, you have green gear, and spam Flash of Light.

Then don't list Repent as a Ret ability.

[Fiducia]

m8, dont kill here your time, if you arent playing pala now. I play lock, pala, war, mage and i know their abilities quite good
Rogue is a pain with his poisons, kick, blind, shields, vanish... i can do nothing with my holy pala vs him.

Poisons? Generally Wound and Mind Numbing in a battle ground. Neither do a lot of damage. Shields? I must learn that at the trainer then... Vanish... well considering its terrible, I wouldn't really list it as a rogue ability.

If you can't keep yourself up against a rogue, you have green gear, and spam Flash of Light.

[Kriziak]

You really need to take all the comments by GC as a whole, rather than pick and chose the bits you don't like.

In case you have difficulty reading this through all the tears, it basically means that whilst many classes can change stance etc to mitigate damage coming in or to heal themselves, the paladin has a much stronger secondary set of abilities, that they can switch to mid combat, than most other hybrids. Again, can you really deny that this is true?

Bubble and heal, LoH (before the proposed change) are considerably more powerful tools for a Ret than an Arms Warrior grabbing his shield. Deny it all you want, but I think most reasonable people will agree.

In arenas i play holy pala - the only possible nuke in 2v2 I can do is trinket+crit with holy shock and stun (every 40 sec).. no dmg like other healers or CC like druid, nor healing over time (except flash of light on sacred shield). The thing that retri has a big dmg they are nerfing dmg to other specs - like with change of exorcimus they took a little dmg from prot paladins and only good dmg spell except holy shock from holy paladins - big nerf in 2v2 or 1v1

The bubble and heal - read pls better, you cant use LoH in arenas... you can use its long CD in PVE or bg but not in arenas...
And about arm wariors - he constantly cut your heal and/or heal of your healer by half? Its is low buff for you - just half heals? And if pala with only half healing will buble - click on button - buble is down and you can finish him off, nothing will save him from your mortal strike+harmstring+rend+bladestorm in arena.

[Ronark]

palidans are so OP that they gain the highest threat from other classes!

Hand of Salvation, HAND OF SALVATION!

[Kriziak]

Poisons? Generally Wound and Mind Numbing in a battle ground. Neither do a lot of damage. Shields? I must learn that at the trainer then... Vanish... well considering its terrible, I wouldn't really list it as a rogue ability.

If you can't keep yourself up against a rogue, you have green gear, and spam Flash of Light.

omg You can forget dmg from poisons - but slow from poisons is bigger problem. Pala has only one instant heal with CD - holy shock, or other heals are long - with poison what reduces speed of casting its terrible and almost imposible to do any heal because of very long cast time and rogues blind, kick abilities...

By shield i meaned ofc only shield vs spells - Cloak of Shadow, not armor type

[Urdak]

omg You can forget dmg from poisons - but slow from poisons is bigger problem. Pala has only one instant heal with CD - holy shock, or other heals are long - with poison what reduces speed of casting its terrible and almost imposible to do any heal because of very long cast time and rogues blind, kick abilities...

By shield i meaned ofc only shield vs spells - Cloak of Shadow, not armor type

sorry, but you suck if you cant survive/kill a rogue as a holypaladin. ever heard of fakecasting?

[Sellest]

People disagreeing with GC on this should take blinders out of eyes. Anyone with a bit of fairness must agree that paladin defensive abilities are way overpowered when compared to ie warrior so it is obvious what he is trying to say. Read whole article and try to understand. Now that you say you need some defensive abilities I agree. If something is taken away (like LoH) something will be added for paladin to balance lack of defensive cooldowns. Wouldn't be better to have something on lower cd to reduce dmg taken then LoH once every 20 minutes? Think about it..

[PopCorn]

People disagreeing with GC on this should take blinders out of eyes. Anyone with a bit of fairness must agree that paladin defensive abilities are way overpowered when compared to ie warrior so it is obvious what he is trying to say. Read whole article and try to understand. Now that you say you need some defensive abilities I agree. If something is taken away (like LoH) something will be added for paladin to balance lack of defensive cooldowns. Wouldn't be better to have something on lower cd to reduce dmg taken then LoH once every 20 minutes? Think about it..

Because LoH cant be used in Arenas, and world PvP/BGs are serious business.

[Skollvaldr]

People disagreeing with GC on this should take blinders out of eyes. Anyone with a bit of fairness must agree that paladin defensive abilities are way overpowered when compared to ie warrior so it is obvious what he is trying to say. Read whole article and try to understand. Now that you say you need some defensive abilities I agree. If something is taken away (like LoH) something will be added for paladin to balance lack of defensive cooldowns. Wouldn't be better to have something on lower cd to reduce dmg taken then LoH once every 20 minutes? Think about it..

get a fucking brain. pople like you are the cause for so many problems (not only in game but also in life).

why in the world do you dare compare a pala's defensive skills to a warrior's whithout looking at the offensive side? yes, palas have great defensive tools... thats because we are a defensive class ffs.
since our burst was toren to pieces what is left on the offensive side?
a stun that is good, no doubt, but on a high cd and most poeple will save the trinket for and the omgsomightythatibreakoneverything repent, again on a high cd.

we could turn the whole thing around. lets take some offensive tools from warriors, i mean come on, anyone with a bit of fairness must agree that a warrior's offensive abilities are way overpowered when compared to ie a ret so it is obvious that they need to be nerfed.
cwatididter?

[Sellest]

think about sheildwall/frenzyregen/recklessness combo
vote warriorbearance of 30 secs between these abilities, just like we have

recklessness used to be on 30 min shared CD with shield wall and retaliation. New Recklessness with only 3 crit charges is kinda useless. And if you need to shieldwall, you need to equip shield so your crits won't hurt with 1h or fist. This is how you can't use defensive and offensive ability at once.

And to the poster above me, its pretty obvious Blizzard thinks so.

[Demetrion]

Again. Try it before you can say anything.

U're right, 12K is rly to much, try with 10K followed with 10K conflag and 6K instant incinerate on 900 ressilinece.

[Puremallace]

The statement as I read it makes it seem like GC has reconsidered the qq threads and is finally caving to preasure. When I see shit like "there is alot of things that can be changed". Like what.

There was alot of shit that was changed on DK's and it took them 3 patches before people would even log onto there DK again.

[JayJay09]

People disagreeing with GC on this should take blinders out of eyes. Anyone with a bit of fairness must agree that paladin defensive abilities are way overpowered when compared to ie warrior so it is obvious what he is trying to say. Read whole article and try to understand. Now that you say you need some defensive abilities I agree. If something is taken away (like LoH) something will be added for paladin to balance lack of defensive cooldowns. Wouldn't be better to have something on lower cd to reduce dmg taken then LoH once every 20 minutes? Think about it..

Yes, compare a 75% MS, charge, interrupt Class with a Retribution Paladin. Yes.

As I said.. We are designed around the bubble and that's the problem. Always Op bla bla.. I'm so tired of it. Mentioning LoH is a joke anyhoo.. IT CANNOT BE USED IN ARENA. IT JUST CANNOT. WHY THE FUCKING FUCK IS THIS OP THEN? Ret Paladin actually lack defensive abilities in Arena. And on that one I have to agree with you. If LoH is taken away (I mean 20 min and uh.. CD.. OP!.. Ofc) then there is definitely defensive stuff to come! BUT. When I recall this GC Bullshit, promises and posts.. Then I think SS is just getting fucked, LoH turned into 20 min cd of crap and new skillz added none.

We got a prugeable Shieldwall. I forgot.
Oh wait.. Forbearance. Right. Bubble. Priest/Warrior. That's it.
Army of dead is also a 20 min CD making the DK kill ANY MELEE DPS. Op? No! Cannot be used in Arena. This BG reasoning comes from people who really have to l2p. And because of those nonsenselers (this Lock saying over and over again that we should first lvl a lock before we talk about 12k CBs is a nice example) the class paladin is always considered OP. When it's not the bubble or the burstdmg it's the sacred shield or the 20 FUCKING MINUTE CD of LoH. I see it. Paladin really is the doggystyled class.. That is so much love for the ass..

[rabbimojo]

Yes, compare a 75% MS, charge, interrupt Class with a Retribution Paladin. Yes.

As I said.. We are designed around the bubble and that's the problem. Always Op bla bla.. I'm so tired of it. Mentioning LoH is a joke anyhoo.. IT CANNOT BE USED IN ARENA. IT JUST CANNOT. WHY THE FUCKING FUCK IS THIS OP THEN? Ret Paladin actually lack defensive abilities in Arena. And on that one I have to agree with you. If LoH is taken away (I mean 20 min and uh.. CD.. OP!.. Ofc) then there is definitely defensive stuff to come! BUT. When I recall this GC Bullshit, promises and posts.. Then I think SS is just getting fucked, LoH turned into 20 min cd of crap and new skillz added none.

We got a prugeable Shieldwall. I forgot.
Oh wait.. Forbearance. Right. Bubble. Priest/Warrior. That's it.
Army of dead is also a 20 min CD making the DK kill ANY MELEE DPS. Op? No! Cannot be used in Arena. This BG reasoning comes from people who really have to l2p. And because of those nonsenselers (this Lock saying over and over again that we should first lvl a lock before we talk about 12k CBs is a nice example) the class paladin is always considered OP. When it's not the bubble or the burstdmg it's the sacred shield or the 20 FUCKING MINUTE CD of LoH. I see it. Paladin really is the doggystyled class.. That is so much love for the ass..

BGs are going to be rated in Cata. Balancing around them is becoming more necessary.

Not worth responding to the rest of what you said, you're just another disgrace to the class. Those of us who play(ed) paladins with pride know the score, and it isn't that mindless drivel you're spouting.

[Porte]

[quote=JayJay09 ]
This weird GC Guy should really put his attention on balancing facts that matter. And this is Arena. Surely, Ret lives long in BG. Every 20 Min. Surely, Ret kills people fast. With low resi. Surely Bubble is a pain. When there ain't no priest or warrior (Every second 3on3 Game has either a priest or a warrior). Ever played Ret in 2k+ 3on3 Rated? You are focus. Your defensive lacks active and useful talents. We are all designed around the bubble. Fuck bubble, helps shit when it matters. Would trade it against anything. Against 2 times iceblock, against DK Cds, against vanish, evasion, CoS, against any baseline defensive ability. Against demonic circle. I would fucking trade it.

And you guys that know shit about Ret in Arena should just shut the fuck up and get some BG Gear and Skills. 17k HP Rogues, pve shamans, 18k hp buffed priests cannot be considered as serious feedback to Ret being op. They die fast. And that is just the way it should be. No skill and no gear? Then die! Rets don't live long with sucky gear neither. All you see is that relentless motherfuckers banging your wives virtually by raping your low chars. Jus' ridiculous. Maybe there is some tuning needed for bgs. But not at the cost of Arena performance. Seriously. It's just "I wanna take a hammer and smash your face until I am tired" stuff I read over and over again, when those pvp lowbob pricks seem to know the game. GC barely knows how to spell Paladin. His knowledge about the class is from fairy tales and crap like that. His reasoning is so 2000 and late. Always sounds like LoH CD is one minute and forebearance and bubble cd don't exist. Can't really take this guy serious. Lead Designer. I've never seen a Lead Designer disqualifying himself with almost every post. I kinda feel pity for him.

The trust!

[Gooka]

In the first row should rather look at the feedback from the arena and not to BG players.
When looking at some videos, where an experienced player passes the BG, so it seems to me that he is fighting against bots and not against the living man.
I fear that most of these originate from casual PvP player who going to the PvP and equip for xp.Team play, tactics and resilience are a foreign concept to him.
Those players can ve a hundred bubbles and it will be useless.
Once some of the top arenas players say that something is OP then maybe I will take it seriously.
From my perspective, are Paladins momentalne OK. Bigger problem I see more and more papers in the burst dmg from casters (shamans, destrolock)
and excessive quantity CC abilities in mage. Meele class has no chance kill experienced mage.
Anyway, everyone should before you start whining, think about whether his ability such that the only solution is to nerf class who had mostly overcome.

Sorry for bad English.

[Theosos]

GC should level a paladin and try to kill resto druid then he would know who needs to be nerffed..

well but seriosly yes plz nerf our defences and take bubble and loh away but boost pve dps to
equal the locks and hunters facerolling top of dps charts

[JayJay09]

BGs are going to be rated in Cata. Balancing around them is becoming more necessary.

Not worth responding to the rest of what you said, you're just another disgrace to the class. Those of us who play(ed) paladins with pride know the score, and it isn't that mindless drivel you're spouting.

Yes. In cata. In cata everything is getting changed by a lot. Taking bgs into account for wotlk is fail. I am playing retribution since the lolret times and I came up with sucesses. You talk about pride? Considering all the prejudice you are right. But pride of being so barely known by any other class? Even by the Lead Designer? And therefore being always the focus of OP'ness? Now it's 20 Min CD LoH.

I really don't know what you made to write what you wrote. Either you are a proud but not very successful/success oriented paladin or you just jumped into the role of the proud paladin and actually get farmed in bgs with your low char. Another possibility is that my two points are wrong and you just don't care about pvp. If so, stay out of that business.

[Krazen]

I see a lot of post regarding the few ret paladins in highrated teams and concerning about retribution that doesn't really need a nerf, but you forget something.
Most of the players don't play at 2200+ but more in the 1200-1600 range, and there the rets seems op becouse most of the people doesn't know how to counter them or lock them out of the fight. Most of the qq originate from that people, that see a plate god healing as good as his healer, locking out a team mate in a stun, bubbling and reset the fight, and so on...
To sum it up, for player that know the classes and how to play ret is a fine class and it really is (btw i don't play a ret so i'm not defending my class or whatever) but for the average/low player ret is a killing machine that is unstoppable and that's the origin of the massive qq ( you can remember a post of gc, taking about average player vs retribution posted not long time ago).