Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

[Ronark]

a HoT you can remove there mr shaman. right

If it is a Hot, then the following occur:

---> Balanced for PvP
---> In line cooldown with similar abilities
---> More useful as a Tank

[shaak]

If it is a Hot, then the following occur:

---> Balanced for PvP
---> In line cooldown with similar abilities
---> More useful as a Tank

the hot idea sounds good

[Lumidar]

If it is a Hot, then the following occur:

---> Balanced for PvP
---> In line cooldown with similar abilities
---> More useful as a Tank

makes sense to me.

[moxom]

I would rather see it removed than fucking up my shield wall >.<

[pavl]

IMHO, Lay on Hands was nerfed due to 1v1 situations.
Not that it should be nerfed cause of that, but they do occur, and for some people, they do matter.
LoH is not THAT useful against hard-hitting bosses anyway...

Yep yes and yea. LoH was only useful in PvE in an oh shit my healer messed up button. Divine protection is our best cd just like shield wall, if we can't use it just because a healer messed up or something went terrible bad like a healer getting mistress kissed and incinerate flesh goes up, LoH is awesome, otherwise I never use. To make a choice between LoH and shieldwall, I'm going to choose shieldwall and trust my healers. Warriors have another pally in the raid pop it on them and then still shieldwall and be happy. I don't pvp at all except for the occasional WG and I know its retarded when pallies Loh, then almost dead and bubble and holy light, but with the reduced burst they have and proper CC I have no problem killing pallies on my shaman. 1 on 1 situations don't matter for shit anyways so if blizzard really needs to make all the QQers happy they should at least make an existing deep prot tree talent like touched by light or something make it so LoH on yourself doesn't cause forbearance.

[Nillo]

I really hope they take Divine protection off the forbearance in PVE, it just sux if you want/need to HoP/DS (An00b or Northrend Beasts hard) and get fucked up afterwards because your Shield Wall is locked, while all the other tanks are still able to use their oh shit buttons.

[Cardolan]

I really hope they take Divine protection off the forbearance in PVE, it just sux if you want/need to HoP/DS (An00b or Northrend Beasts hard) and get fucked up afterwards because your Shield Wall is locked, while all the other tanks are still able to use their oh shit buttons.

Removing Forbearance entirely (as well as the Avenging Wrath + Divine Protection/Divine Shield mechanic) for PvE wouldn't really be an issue, since their individual use is controlled through the cooldown length (and the use of Divine Shield by Protection Paladins is limited by the threat dump). It only exists to prevent Paladins from chaining them in PvP.

The implementation of a PvE/PvP distinction could be messy, though. You could have them only cause Forbearance in Battlegrounds and Arenas, but that would allow them to be chained for world PvP. Or you could only have them not cause Forbearance inside dungeons/raids, but that wouldn't allow them to be chained during world PvE.

[Bada]

Once again a player QQs without really thinking it through. Because you can self-cast again, what will happen with good players is the prot pally will LoH himself if it's off cooldown, or otherwise use bubblewall.

The holy pally will then have LoH ready to go to save the warrior offtank, who actually NEEDS an oh-shit button to heal because he doesn't have Holy Cheat Death.

The warrior offtank has Shield Wall AND Last Stand.

Not saying I support the nerf, as holy paladin.

[Bada]

Once again, Blizzard uses the paladin band-aid Forbearance to completely fuck shit up. The OP is 100% right, this is going to screw with raiding prot paladins in a big way. Let me give you an example:

Prot paladin uses their version of Shield wall - Divine Protection - to live through boss large hit #1. Holy Paladin uses his only ohshit button(compare it to NS in a raiding environment - they even buffed it to reduce physical damage taken when specced holy) only to find out that forbearance keeps him from using it on the tank. Paladin tank dies.

I get that Blizzard doesn't want paladins dominating rated bgs with their 20 minute instafullhealth button... but they're doing it the wrong way yet again. Thanks, morons.

Protip: Holy paladin casts Beacon of Light on the tank, and casts LoH on himself to give the same amount of health to himself AND the tank.

[Vashta]

Protip: Holy paladin casts Beacon of Light on the tank, and casts LoH on himself to give the same amount of health to himself AND the tank.

Please sticky this post.

[Bada]

Weaken Soul doesn't prevent a Druid from using Barkskin, a Warrior from Shield Wall-ing, or a DK from using IBF.

But it prevents the other priest from casting PW:S.

[Cardolan]

But it prevents the other priest from casting PW:S.

What? The other Priest that's tanking the boss?

[syvas]

Yeh, I thought this too.
If a Holy Paladin gets a bit behind and has to cast Lay on Hands on me (I'm prot) it really will screw things up for when I time my other cooldowns, but I'll make sure I'll let my fellow Pala Guildies know if any of them cast LoH on me I'll castrate them...

[Deleted]

Gief
#1
Prot End-Tier talent That Remove the forbearance From Divine Prot thing.
#2
Holy End-tier Talent that remove the Forbearance From LoH

Thanks

[Seumerda]

LoH is a healing spell and it is really clear to me that it should be a powerfull cooldown just for healers. Casting a 50k+ heal as a tank is not justifiable just because prots lack for tanking cooldowns. They should get defensive cooldowns, that mitigate damage, and not a healing instant spell that you can use every several minutes, and I belive that on the Cataclysm talent trees revamp prot pallys will get proper cooldowns.

The forbearance is indeed the pally band-aid aind, IMO, the nerf should have remained as it initially was, not usable on yourself.

By the way, comparing LoH with the druid's and warrior's heals isn't nearly reasonable. Healing yourself for 50k+ on a single GCD is far better than healing yourself for ~35k (by using last stand+enraged regeneration) or ~25k (by using survival instincts+frenzied regeneration) over 10 seconds.

[Urbloodsmyn]

option #3 make LOH not usable in BG's like it is in arena < Also inc WG>

[Suikiele]

you should compare not LoH with Ad,
but compare LoH+ AD to warrior combo Last Stand + Frenzyregen
they are , in fact, even.

not to mention the fact, that i can give my LoH to you, and any other raidmember.

Your maths... they are wrong! D:

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=55694
"You regenerate 30% of your total health over 10 sec. This ability requires an Enrage effect, consumes all Enrage effects and prevents any from affecting you for the full duration."

and...

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=12975
"When activated, this ability temporarily grants you 30% of your maximum health for 20 sec. After the effect expires, the health is lost."

Versus:

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48788
"Heals a friendly target for an amount equal to the Paladin's maximum health and restores 1950 of their mana."

and...

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31852
"Damage that takes you below 35% health is reduced by 20%. In addition, attacks which would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to 30% of your maximum health (amount healed based on defense). This healing effect cannot occur more often than once every 2 min."

Are you seriously implying they are at all comparable? Last I checked, 30% of 30% added to the initial 30% isn't 100%.

[Suikiele]

option 4 - make AotD not usable on Bg's
5 - make Fel DOmination...
6- Summon Infernal...
7 - fire elemental
7- earth elemental..
etcetc

Ineffective and boring troll is ineffective and boring. Go die in a culvert.

[Irlina]

I didn't read all the posts because I didnt feel like reading 10 pages of pally bashing, crying and QQ'n. So sorry if someone already posted something similiar to this.

This problem has an easy solution so far as a PvE environment. Since the changes to beacon all overhealing goes to the beaconed target. I'm not sure how most holy pals heal but for me I generally beacon the tank and heal everyone else while keeping a close eye on the tanks current health. So if a circumstance comes up where you need to use LoH and your MT is a prot pally just cast it on a dps or whatever. The tank will still get the heal. Problem solved. No forbearance on the tank.

So far as LoH being used in world PvP and BG's I'll have to agree it was a bit OP but instead of making it cause forbearance they coulda just made it so you cant use it in BG's just like arenas.

Oh well. Keep your heads up fellow pallys. Maybe someday they'll finally nerf indestructible resto druids and warlocks that can stun you then crit you for 20k cause thats not OP at all.

[Memouri]

I like all the crying scrubs making it sound like LoH has a 1min CD =D