Prot tanking question

[Hi11topper]

Hi all,

First of all here is my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...trom&n=Arkarai

I mainly have questions about my spec. I just got into a raiding guild so I wanted to make sure my spec is still up to date.

I was thinking of swapping some things around, mainly to
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZE0tAbuMGsIufdxf00b

or swap those 2 pts in pursuit of justice and put them in vindication

Any thoughts on spec, gemming, gear etc please let me know.

I appreciate the help, thanks in advance.

[Cardolan]

You could do something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxfMobc

Would probably give you the best results.

[Parhadox]

--Talent Spec and and Glyphs with best TPS for now:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0x...dts0hbc:Gpkcmz

You could switch 3/5 reckoning to 3/5 divinity, whatever floats your boat.

--Gemming:

Sorry to tell you this but you do NOT gem for Strength as prot, ever. You may think that it's better for threat, but right now Paladins are in such a good place threat-wise that if you go on and replace strength for straight stamina you will benefit much more. Also, defense rating is over cap, you will be better off with stamina as much as possible, just make sure to be around 540-542 def rating and you're fine.

--Libram

Try and get the Emblem of Triumph one, I can understand if you give priority to other things for now, but that libram is way too hot to pass up.

--Expertise/Hit

It's cool that you're aware of our need of expertise/hit, but pick up the 2 glyphs I put there and never gem/enchant for hit or expertise, you will get them by gear and 10 expertise from 1 glyph and a never miss glyph for taunt and righteous defense will be great help.

--Gear

Your gear is solid except for some very obvious pieces screaming for you to replace them as soon as possible. Try and buy some BoE's from the AH or farm heroics for the Emblem of Valor wrists/back.

The major gemming option right now is pure stamina, it is what we need to not die and hold our own when damage spikes come by. Apply these things and you'll be better off in raids.

Also, once you reach 600 dodge rating without any procs, go look up the benefit of agility over dodge.

[Deaths]

Drop the Strength gems and go for Stamina. Swap your spec too.

[Cardolan]

--Talent Spec and and Glyphs with best TPS for now:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0x...dts0hbc:Gpkcmz

You could switch 3/5 reckoning to 3/5 divinity, whatever floats your boat.

Speccing for maximum TPS as a Paladin is borderline retarded (possibly not even borderline), especially if it's at the cost of Vindication and other useful talents.

[Hi11topper]

Thank you for the great replies. This may be very noobish of me but for some reason I thought str helped with our block, although I could be compleatly offbase.

Looks like I have my work cut out for me here :P

I am curious as to vindication though. Is it only unecessary if there is a demo shout/roar in the raid?

Again, thanks for the replies, have lots of changing to do.

[Cardolan]

Thank you for the great replies. This may be very noobish of me but for some reason I thought str helped with our block, although I could be compleatly offbase.

Looks like I have my work cut out for me here :P

I am curious as to vindication though. Is it only unecessary if there is a demo shout/roar in the raid?

Again, thanks for the replies, have lots of changing to do.

Strength does increase block value, but doesn't give enough of a benefit to be worth gemming for. You get about 12 block value per 20 strength gem (with Holy Strength and Sanctuary/Kings), which is pretty much nothing in terms of threat and mitigation. You're better off gemming for pure stamina or agility/stamina (if it's a red socket with a decent stamina bonus).

Vindication has the added bonus of costing nothing aside from the two talent points to pick it up, and will be guaranteed on everything you are tanking regardless of whether or not there's another tank targetting it.

[syvas]

Maybe spec into Seals of the Pure rather then divinity?
Divinty is redundant if a healer is doing 5% overhealing on you imo

[cappytoi]

Strength does increase block value, but doesn't give enough of a benefit to be worth gemming for. You get about 12 block value per 20 strength gem (with Holy Strength and Sanctuary/Kings), which is pretty much nothing in terms of threat and mitigation. You're better off gemming for pure stamina or agility/stamina (if it's a red socket with a decent stamina bonus).

Vindication has the added bonus of costing nothing aside from the two talent points to pick it up, and will be guaranteed on everything you are tanking regardless of whether or not there's another tank targetting it.

fixed, str is the best threat stat for paladins still. not worth gemming for if you are not building a threat set.

[Evereghalo]

elitistjerks.com

maintankadin.com

tankspot.com


Go do research, be informed and make the best decisions for yourself.

[Copain]

elitistjerks.com

maintankadin.com

tankspot.com


Go do research, be informed and make the best decisions for yourself.

Glad to see someone else likes to look around before asking. But you are asking too much from a lot of people to actually think.

[Chasey]

I don't think its to much, but what I do think is the OP is saying hey am I on the right path. To me, I'd rather spend an hour browsing sites on this variety of questions that use one forum to gauge my progress.

Stam is never a bad thing!
Avoidance is good.
Blocking 2000 incoming damage of a 25k hit is NOT as meaningful as it once was.
Any talent (ie...vindication, JotJ) are worth thier weight in gold.
Blizz forces us to take Divine sac, reckoning or divinity. One is still useless as far as the incoming damage is heavy, one cause over heals and if you put points in reckoning, you are asking for extra damage. It was mentioned that we have good threat so if one or more of those extra swings are parried by a boss, guess who takes the brunt of that? Thats right...you.
If you OT adds, you will find PoJ is AWESOME. Time=distance and you get to the mob quicker.

Gems, unless the socket bonus is to good to pass up:
Blue~dug
Red~ Agi/stam or dodge/stam
Yellow~ Def/stam
Epic if you can! If not do daillies and BG's to get the epic gems.

Expect to be humbled by the size of the shots you take in Ulduar and ToC. Mobs hit really hard and if you aren't set up right it will be a 1 shot!
Good luck and hit up Theck's writings over at maintankadin.com
Golden rules!

[Cardolan]

fixed, str is the best threat stat for paladins still. not worth gemming for if you are not building a threat set.

The "pretty much nothing in terms of threat and mitigation" was in relation to the "about 12 block value", which was perfectly clear from the way it was worded.

[Corathor]

Stamina is key, once you hit 540 Defense, although I don't think you should pass everything over for stamina.. Once you hit 540 Defense. Put Stamina/Defense in any slot you can.. while 540 is the cap, defense past 540 does still give you mitigation. With the upcoming changes to Avoidance/Boss Damage, I'd go ahead and start getting in the habbit of going Stamina/Defense as much as possible, every extra point of avoidance is going to help.

[Copain]

Stamina is key, once you hit 540 Defense, although I don't think you should pass everything over for stamina.. Once you hit 540 Defense. Put Stamina/Defense in any slot you can.. while 540 is the cap, defense past 540 does still give you mitigation. With the upcoming changes to Avoidance/Boss Damage, I'd go ahead and start getting in the habbit of going Stamina/Defense as much as possible, every extra point of avoidance is going to help.

It's not a cap.

Only Stam stacking is bad.

[Chasey]

It's not a cap.

Only Stam stacking is bad.

HUH? it is? Explain.

Stam is not bad. When half of the games damage is unmitagatable, stam is the only solid stat we have.

[Larivas]

It's not a cap.

Only Stam stacking is bad.

When someone says "cap" they mean to reach uncrittable. Everyone knows this, there is no reason to point it out. Stam stacking is not bad, as the poster above said a lot of the damage can't be mitigated or avoided, making stam the best stat for overall survivability. Also, spec'ing for threat at the cost of talents like vindication is fine. You don't need it, especially if you've got a ret pally to do it for you, and there are tons of them around now.

Also, you don't need the points in Divine Sacrifice / Divine Guardian or Divinity. Divine Sacrifice is getting nerfed next patch anyway.

[Cardolan]

Also, spec'ing for threat at the cost of talents like vindication is fine. You don't need it, especially if you've got a ret pally to do it for you, and there are tons of them around now.

You need Vindication or a similar effect on your target for hard mode content, and it will make all other content that much easier. You shouldn't rely on anybody other than yourself to put the debuffs you need (Vindication, and Judgements of the Just) on your target. Any sensible Retribution Paladin will not be taking Vindication in a PvE DPS spec.

Divine Guardian is getting buffed in the next patch to the point where with a castcancel macro you'll have a mini-Divine Protection, making it the obvious talent of choice for any sensible Protection Paladin.

[Melonberry]

It all depends on what you're tanking. If you aren't tanking hardmodes, don't stack stam. If you aren't tanking toc25, socket str/sta instead of agi/stam. If you aren't tanking 25s at all, socket str.

Stam is overrated for the content most of us will be participating in. Just because you read something is best for togc25 gormok, doesn't mean it's best for you, unless of course you are doing that fight.

[Nillo]

Yes, there is a reason. How do you know that "everybody knows it". People parrot what others say and at one point the missinformation becomes accepted knowledge. Are you telling me people can write a wall of text but cannot be bothered to write a few extra letters and use "cap" instead of "minimum"?

So..yeah - I applaud everybody who points this out. If everybody knew everything, these forums would be dead and we all tank in one specc.

I use to call it Def-Crit-Softcap, because in that sense it is actually a cap (unless you're fighting thorim).
But seriously there are so many wannabe tanks out there that really believe Def has a Cap, when in fact it's only a Softcap.

Also, spec'ing for threat at the cost of talents like vindication is fine. You don't need it, especially if you've got a ret pally to do it for you, and there are tons of them around now.

2) Also, you don't need the points in Divine Sacrifice / Divine Guardian or Divinity. Divine Sacrifice is getting nerfed next patch anyway.

1) Absolutely not 2% crit is ~1% more threat at best and extremely unreliable. Vindication however is awesome, because you only need to sacrifice 2 talent points (warriors droods need 5 each) for a huge damage reduction, that will not always be put up by someone else (think of bosses, like NB Worms, that need a dedicated offtank).
2) Divine Guardian is getting a Huge buff for Prot Paladins in the next patch, because it will be useable without bubbling first (-> you save your forbearance cd). And Divine Guardian should be picked up for Sacred Shield anyway (if you don't use it you're just bad).