Suggestion for Ret PvP

[Cheezyweezy]

The thing is, the whole double mana thing doesn't just end with healers
it affects everyone, say you get the debuff on a fellow ret, itl cripple him due to the tight rotation and low mana pool and the need to spam judgement when its off CD.
Current mechanics of the class isn't meant to sustain a rotation nearly as expensive as that one.

There's a difference between weakening a class, and then limiting them to autoattack

[Ronark]

Why does it need to work for PvE too?

Warriors don't need to hamstring or MS bosses for pve.

Paladins don't really need any more PvE offensive and defensive utility, sure it would be nice, but its unneeded.

Right now I can pull 8K+ dps in TotC while providing tons of group buffs, why do I need more PvE offensive utility?

Its our PvP that needs the offensive utility.

The change I threw out there helps with our biggest problem, having to try and outlast our opponents. Unless you like have 30 min 2v2 arena games when grouped with a healer, etc. The double mana effect wouldn't really make healers any less effective, so they wouldn't complain quite as much as having to heal through an MS or being silenced. Yet, the effect would still be very profitable for us in the long run.

Because currently Vindication reduces Tank damage by 10-15% and is "free" for me to use. And yes, even MS effects are useful in PvE- Reducing Mana, however, is almost 99% useless in PvE.

[Crazysyco]

Why would an interrupt be game-breaking? Rogues can stun you for (I can't remember if it's 7 or 8 seconds) and kick. Warriors do MORE damage then us, yet they have a 50% MS and an interrupt. This isn't a "we need something creative tho!" issue. Nearly every DPS spec has an interrupt, the ones that don't are: Rets, Boomkins, Shadow Priests, Ferals and Hunters (Silencing Shot doesn't really count). Of those, 2 have an MS, one is a full 50% the other is 20%. Ferals have instant cyclone to effectively work as an interrupt, and Maim does the same interrupt affect. So what we have remaining is Boomkins, and for the sake of the fact they only have 20% MS, I'll throw in Shadow Priests. These 2 other specs are pretty terrible in arena right now (trust me, I do 3s with a boomkin). I think an interrupt, something most other classes/specs have in the game isn't too much to ask.

So many rets have now jumped on the bandwagon that we do so much burst. I'll let you guys know, ret's burst isn't even close to destro locks, warriors, ele shaman, feral druids (note, I'm not saying ele shaman are OP) and comparable burst to rogues, enhance shaman, hunters and mages. What do most of these specs have? Interrupts. It's really not asking for much, there is a reason there isn't a single ret in the top 100 arena players and 2 prot/ret pallys.

[Bling]

Because currently Vindication reduces Tank damage by 10-15% and is "free" for me to use. And yes, even MS effects are useful in PvE- Reducing Mana, however, is almost 99% useless in PvE.

Yet warriors and feral druids apply the same debuff with I believe stronger potency.

Once again, why do we need to have it effect PvE?

WE DON'T HAVE PVE PROBLEMS, WE HAVE PVP PROBLEMS.

Every class out there has PvP talents and skills, hell some classes have entire talent trees that are referred to as the PvP trees like Mages and Rogues.

The thing is, the whole double mana thing doesn't just end with healers
it affects everyone, say you get the debuff on a fellow ret, itl cripple him due to the tight rotation and low mana pool and the need to spam judgement when its off CD.
Current mechanics of the class isn't meant to sustain a rotation nearly as expensive as that one.

There's a difference between weakening a class, and then limiting them to autoattack

You obviously didn't read my description of the spell very well. It wouldn't make the targets attacks cost more. If a ret got the debuff, CS, DS, judgement, etc would all cost the same. Only heals and self buffs like HoF or SS would be effected, and only if we used it on ourselves.

[Cheezyweezy]

You obviously didn't read my description of the spell very well. It wouldn't make the targets attacks cost more. If a ret got the debuff, CS, DS, judgement, etc would all cost the same. Only heals and self buffs like HoF or SS would be effected, and only if we used it on ourselves.

Yea my bad, just went back and read it again

[Hydrophylic]

I believe the real reason rets arent getting an interupt is because practically every other class has them... I know for sure in arenas if i got a rogue/dk/mage(kinda)/shaman on me im gonna have a lot of trouble casting, and need to have them CC'd fast... other classes like locks and druids are sometimes just as worse cause they dont interupt but they CC in other ways pretty well... now add pallies to the list and almost every class becomes a nightmare for any casters

you still have ur stun and repent for somewhat of an interupt... and the burst damage (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3 wow this is so hard) is still good enough where i gotta keep a good lookout on my health bar... just sayin

[Ronark]

Yet warriors and feral druids apply the same debuff with I believe stronger potency.

Once again, why do we need to have it effect PvE?

WE DON'T HAVE PVE PROBLEMS, WE HAVE PVP PROBLEMS.

Every class out there has PvP talents and skills, hell some classes have entire talent trees that are referred to as the PvP trees like Mages and Rogues.

You obviously didn't read my description of the spell very well. It wouldn't make the targets attacks cost more. If a ret got the debuff, CS, DS, judgement, etc would all cost the same. Only heals and self buffs like HoF or SS would be effected, and only if we used it on ourselves.

Wrong. We do have PvE problems. Also, Vindication is MUCH MUCH stonger than Demo shout/roar.

---> Free of Cost
---> 96% uptime
---> Requires only 2 talent point

[Bling]

You do realize Demo shout and roar reduce Ap by 575 while Vindication is only 574 so it gets overwritten?

Also what is this PvE Problem we have? I don't really think I have much of a PvE problem when I can get top 3 in dps 95% of the time when my guild clears GtotC and even alalagon regularly.

[Ronark]

You do realize Demo shout and roar reduce Ap by 575 while Vindication is only 574 so it gets overwritten?

Also what is this PvE Problem we have? I don't really think I have much of a PvE problem when I can get top 3 in dps 95% of the time when my guild clears GtotC and even alalagon regularly.

Because 410 times 1.4 is 575? Math Fail.

The only problem we have in PvE is a long ramp up time without a way to keep our SoV stacks up on your target, and to a minor extent an interrupt.

[omegatrigun]

A spell lockout from a full interrupt, coupled with HoJ would be too much(9 seconds of no heals? You'd be roasted in holy fire pretty quick)

Why would it be too much? Dk's can strang, garg stun, and interrupt. Rogues can CS, KS, and interrupt.

[omegatrigun]

fixT.

Ya, I woke up like 20 min ago.