Priests pvp representation in catyclysm.

[Kootz]

Well i was bored. and when i get bored i start to think. however terrible that is for me. it happened and i cannot take it back.

I am an ex pvp disc priest. i did decently well in all seasons averaging like 1700-2k

nothing special just average.

Anyways i began to think about what makes disc such a great choice for comps like mage/priest rogue/priest and of course rpm.

Obviously the word for it is synergy. but when i thought about it harder i could not spot the glaringly obvious synergy that priests had over any other healers for the comps we specialize in.

I kept coming back to the same 2 abilities. Offensive dispelling. and mass dispel.
from what i can tell. those are the 2 abilities that make priests excel in pvp (with the right composition of course).

in fact. other than those 2 abilities i cannot see any reason why a priest would be even close to being a good synergy for those comps. as we must pick comps with insane control to keep all pressure off of us in order to even come close to achieving a high level.

Hypothetically if you were to take away the priests mass dispel. and offensive dispelling you would have a class that contributes nothing over the other healers besides a massive need to be babysat in order to perform.

Then that got me thinking that it has already been stated that in cataclysm all classes that can heal will have a dispel. Obviously this may or may not include the ability to offensively dispel.

And that is as far as my thought process has gone. but i came to a bit of a conclusion.
if you take away a priests offensive dispel ability. or give it to every other healer class.
i honestly think you would see the priest class become almost non existent in high level arena.

because if you do the research you will see that we have no other real abilities that make us stand out in the slightest. other than mana burn of course. but honestly that ability post nerfs is more like kicking yourself in the balls rather than hurting your opponent.

Keep in mind this is a post meant to spark a bit of conversation. not qq or anything of that sort.

i would like to invite the children that would insult or make fun of this post to kindly leave without posting. other than that your more than welcome to post your opinions on my little thing here or whatever.

[baele]

Psychic Scream is one of the most powerful pvp spells in the game. As someone who has played a holy pally extensively, a class with zero offensive ccs or dispels, that is the one spell that I hated more than any other, even with -30 percent fear reduction from talents. With the dispels I could always recast sacred shield and mass dispelling the bubble usually isn't that big of a deal since all I need was that 2 second breather to survive. However it is psychic scream that really makes priests a powerhouse.

And let's not forget about Power Word Shield, the strongest pvp healing spell in the game in my opinion. Being able to start the battle with PWS on all of your teammates is huge, you stop 20k damage without even having to spend a gcd, and oh, it doesn't cost you any mana, no other class has anything like it. This is the real source of RMP syngery, Rogues and Mages are naturally squishy classes with low defenses, and PWS turns them into pvp tanks when combined with their normal survival abilities like blink, frost nova and stealth. Paladin flash of lights and Druid hots heal the damage after it has already been dealt, which is fine with tanky classes like DKs and Warriors. PWS prevents the damage in the first place which makes it much more effecitve with squishier classes. This also allows the priest to play more offensively, i.e. dispelling, since PWS is frontloaded healing whereas other healers have to play more defensive, spending all of their gcds on rectroactive healing.

So PWS, Psychic Scream and Dispels, thats the source of priest power.

[gaymer77]

And don't forget the burst benefit brings to RMP in the form of power infusion that is added with tricks of the trade from that rogue..........

[Kootz]

Psychic Scream is one of the most powerful pvp spells in the game. As someone who has played a holy pally extensively, a class with zero offensive ccs or dispels, that is the one spell that I hated more than any other, even with -30 percent fear reduction from talents. With the dispels I could always recast sacred shield and mass dispelling the bubble usually isn't that big of a deal since all I need was that 2 second breather to survive. However it is psychic scream that really makes priests a powerhouse.

And let's not forget about Power Word Shield, the strongest pvp healing spell in the game in my opinion. Being able to start the battle with PWS on all of your teammates is huge, you stop 20k damage without even having to spend a gcd, and oh, it doesn't cost you any mana, no other class has anything like it. This is the real source of RMP syngery, Rogues and Mages are naturally squishy classes with low defenses, and PWS turns them into pvp tanks when combined with their normal survival abilities like blink, frost nova and stealth. Paladin flash of lights and Druid hots heal the damage after it has already been dealt, which is fine with tanky classes like DKs and Warriors. PWS prevents the damage in the first place which makes it much more effecitve with squishier classes. This also allows the priest to play more offensively, i.e. dispelling, since PWS is frontloaded healing whereas other healers have to play more defensive, spending all of their gcds on rectroactive healing.

So PWS, Psychic Scream and Dispels, thats the source of priest power.

i really must disagree with you on the whole psychic scream being our main powerhouse spell.. it may have been strong vs the comp you played.. but its most defiantly not a premier spell that defines the priest as so many classes in the game have sever counters to it. couple that with a long cooldown and i see no reason to consider fear a top spell.. often time the priests offensive dispells are what allow the priests partner to put out enough pressure to actually keep dps off the priest for a long enough time to allow for the fear cooldown.. if anything i would say fear being viable for us in pvp is a testament to our partners and our offensive dispel abilities and how much pressure they in turn cause.

Also i can only assume your referencing a 5s team as on a fully raid buffed priest power word shield will only absorb about 7k.. in pvp gear that number is far less as you know.

Power word shield is strong.. but so is most burst in this game. not to mention every way there is to dispel the shield itself. but unless your referring to strictly preloading the shield before the match actually starts. i have to disagree. it is most certainly on the global cooldown. it most certainly does cost mana. and it most certainly does not absorb 20k damage unless you have it on more than 4 targets.

my whole point is about what makes priests have the representation they do in arena.. while i agree power word shield is a huge part of it. its nowhere near as goldly as you are implying it is.

And don't forget the burst benefit brings to RMP in the form of power infusion that is added with tricks of the trade from that rogue..........

i agree with this completely but once again i would say that same thing about our offensive dps pressure. it is a testament to our partners and our offensive dispel abilities and how much pressure they in turn cause. we use our partners and our offensive dispels to set up our burst.

[Shad47]

Kootz, if I remember well, Blizzard said they wished to add a dispell magic to Druids and Shamans because they lacked it in Raids, so it's only for pve content.
And so there won't be such thing as an offensive dispell, just a defensive one.


But still I understand why you are worry.
If what I said happens, I just cannot imagine how they will make their spell not have an impact on pvp/arena.

Shamans for example, they'll be able to dispell everything curse/magic/poison/diseases + an offensive dispell...
And I just cannot imagine Druids....

I wish we'll get a true dispell poison if that happens....

[gaymer77]

Kootz, if I remember well, Blizzard said they wished to add a dispell magic to Druids and Shamans because they lacked it in Raids, so it's only for pve content.
And so there won't be such thing as an offensive dispell, just a defensive one.

Are you saying that Blizzard wants (or as you said wished to add) for druids and shaman in Cata? Where is your source? I've never EVER heard Blizzard say anything remotely close to that EVER. As for dispell being a defensive one...what crack are you smoking because I'd like to get me some of that. In arena dispelling is offensive and defensive in almost equal amounts. As a priest you strip down the other side's buffs so you can strip down any HOTS that are going on too then or later. Priests bring 2 of the most powerful spells to arena...dispell and an instant cast AOE fear.

[Darkheaven]

Kootz, if I remember well, Blizzard said they wished to add a dispell magic to Druids and Shamans because they lacked it in Raids, so it's only for pve content.
And so there won't be such thing as an offensive dispell, just a defensive one.


But still I understand why you are worry.
If what I said happens, I just cannot imagine how they will make their spell not have an impact on pvp/arena.

Shamans for example, they'll be able to dispell everything curse/magic/poison/diseases + an offensive dispell...
And I just cannot imagine Druids....

I wish we'll get a true dispell poison if that happens....

Someone brought up the topic of it, and he said that they were thinking about giving magic dispell to them because 90% of debuffs in PVP were magic based

[mattiis]

Hypothetically if you were to take away the priests mass dispel. and offensive dispelling you would have a class that contributes nothing over the other healers besides a massive need to be babysat in order to perform.

Hypothetically if u take away the attack button from warriors you would have a class that contributes notthing too, don't you think ???

Well i was bored. and when i get bored i start to think. however terrible that is for me. it happened and i cannot take it back.

i suggest u start thinking about anything else than wow, something that will benefit u in RL. Belive me it will do you much good :P

[TwistedPower]

I would say absorb+ burst healing.

Since MS does not effect Absorb and absorb is a big chunk of Disc healing, Priest heals are not effected as much as other classes becuase of it and it is also instant so you can cast and move.


Burst healing is needed to counter burst damage and priest has some of the best.

Dispells are important but not the end all. I would rate dispells as 3'rd best reason becuase all other healers will be able to dispell self magics in cata. Offensive dispells are powerfull but not always.

Phycic scream is a CC. All healers have a CC. If priests had cyclone instead of fear they would be better. So having a CC in itself is good. But all healers have good CC, except shamen who have CC types that is good sometimes and not good other times. So it does not realy matter what healer CC you choose it could work just as well if not better in some cases in place of PS for a priest.

[skakruk]

Priests get shadow rail in Cata... (wishful thinking) 8)

[Direshadow]

Domination:

1.5 Sec Cast
X% Base Mana
60 Second Cooldown
Type of Debuff - Magical

The victim of this spell has his mind completely dominated by the priest and will attack the nearest enemy for 9 seconds. While the spell is active, the victim is an ally of the priest, but will not use any special abilities. If the victim has nothing nearby to attack, he will stand in place, stupefied.



Aura of Misery:
X% Base Mana
Instant Cast

The priest draws upon negative energy from the Shadow Realm and and radiates an Aura of Misery within 10 Yards (15 Yards Talented). Enemies of the priest who are within the Aura's range suffer a -3% to hit rating (-6% Talented).


Been playing a mage in Dragon Age and I've been thinking a lot. There are so many un-touched mechanics that Blizzard could use to help classes out.

[Flane]

Being able to start the battle with PWS on all of your teammates is huge, you stop 20k damage without even having to spend a gcd, and oh, it doesn't cost you any mana, no other class has anything like it

If you have 25k mana, then yes, it indeed costs you nothing.

[Palatrino]

Disc priests op as usual.
Shadow and Holy, suck.

[Icpie]

SW, for bursting and removing sheep from yourself
Psychic Scream, obviously fearing people
MC, gives your partner time to finish the other player off while you run them off the side of the arena, around a pillar, or just run them away
Mana burn, only class with a spammable mana draining ability
Holy fire, one of the most powerful spells available to a healer aside from the Avenger Shield prot pallys toss

[Flane]

Since when is SW castable while sheep'd? ;o Since when any spell is, excluding pvp trinket and such?

[nikat]

Ok, so you want to know why priests have synergy with mages/rogues.

First lets look at mages and rogues.

2 very offensive classes, but very squishy. However they have very good defensive CD's, and defensive CD's that can even be used while putting out offensive presure.

Now disc priests.

The hands down the most offensive healer ability wise.

They mitigate the most damage (shields, pain suppression), and have one of the best burst healing spells in the game (penance) Both of these allow them to be offensive.

So basically you can shield up your partners, and act like a tripple dps, or double dps + dispeller. Your partners use there CD's to help with that damage mitagation while 3 people are on the offensive.

Then when someone is in trouble the priest can pick them up in a hury.

If your still confused about the synergy I would watch button bashers at MLG once the replays are up, tell me any other healer, even with a deffensive displess is going to be able to replace a priest in this comp, and do it as well as the priest does..

[nikat]

Since when is SW castable while sheep'd? ;o Since when any spell is, excluding pvp trinket and such?

If you death a sheep at the right time as its being cast on you the damage you receive from it will hit after the sheep lands, thus bursting yourself out of the sheep.

[baele]

Priests underappreciate Psychic Scream because they've never had to go without it. Ask any warlock who has played both affliction and destro how powerful instant howl of terror is (a spell with a 50 percent longer cooldown, 30 percent longer with a glyph slot). And Druid is the only other healer that can cc, which they have to shapeshift to use, losing healing power and survivability. Shamans and Paladins have one weak cc on a one minute cooldown (prot paladin is a dead spec and will be deader come 3.3 with more nerfs). All the spammable ccs have major cons to them including cast times. Psychic Scream has none of those cons, is aoe, and on low cooldown, the most powerful cc spell in the game imo.

[Ershiin]

Druid - Powerful HoTs and CC

Paladin - Powerful Burstheals and Dmg Prevention

Shaman - Powerful Offensive Dispels and Passive Cleansing

Priest - A bit of all of the above = Flexibility

Any of the above can be considered both over the top powerful and at the same time incredibly lacking.. It all depends on the situation you're in and who you're playing with/against.

The Priest is awesome and if you dont like it, maybe what you were really looking for is in the examples above... Just dont come crying when the guy who stayed priest just removed your bubble and manaburns you down.. Or your partner gets rage starved/runs oom because you cant dispel.. Or you cant get that guy off of your back because all you have is a slow that puts your interrupt on CD.. Or any of the other situations that constantly pop up playing a niche healer.

All in all, there is no better playstyle, only ones that does and doesnt suit -you- /point

[harky]

Honestly? It's way too early to make any sort of call on Cataclysm.

The above is wrong in a lot of ways though. If you're playing a Priest for 'flexibility' you're doing it wrong. Priest right now is by far the best offensive healer and one of the worst defensive healers. It's pretty balanced right now.

Offense: Priest > Shaman > Paladin > Druid
Defense: Druid > Paladin > Shaman > Priest

Priests really only fit into a team that is both highly offensive and has a lot of ways to protect the Priest. That's why RMP works so well. Highly offensive and lots of ways to protect the Priest. Shaman is used in a similar manner, but has a bit more survivability and the different toolset leads to different comps. RLS works for similar reasons to RMP working, you offer your opponents a gambit. Go on the Shammy and allow the lock free reign, or go on the Lock and allow the Shaman to be more offensive. Paladin works with teams that need indirrect rushdown help, or a defensive curtain to nuke. That's why holy/ele/destro works and why beast-cleave works (pre 3.3 anyway). Druid works with teams that want to push a game into extra innings and wittle them down. There's too much defense for most teams to plow through. So you pair that up with something like shadow-cleave. There's no way to outlast the two DPS so you have to fight the Druids mana bar while beating against a brick wall.

The whole Priest having flexibility thing is old news. TBC/Vanilla news even. Priests in Wrath have a very specific niche in both PVP and PVE. In PVP that roles is to dispel spam, then switch immediately to offense as soon as you have a chance and add that third DPS to your team. In 2v2 it's mostly the same, but good luck with 2v2. It gets really boring having to play 20-30 minute games night after night after night.