No skill in BG's ftw?

[PhailPally]

I love all BG's dont get me wrong, i do atleast 20 each weekend along with my other raids.

But i find there are so many bad players ...

people in deadly getting there face handed to them by people in greens and blues

people in pve gear doing nothing at all .. keyboard turning hardcore

people who cant pvp if there lives depended on a win.

people who are deaf and dont defend bases...

like WTF ... GTFO ... anyone else got this?

[Xiun]

All the time!

I love key turners, because then I can jump around them for 5 mins just spamming ice lance and they can't get a cast/swing in.

[Naft]

I've seen some of these before.. Some of them might be botters, I for one check that by hitting them with a low damage spell or something to just put them in combat (Like a Smite on my priest or a Exorcism on my protadin) and see how they react to it.
If they start turning, then walks towards you without bigger hesitation (At this time, kite) and then just leaves you alone, stands still for a couple of seconds, then mount and find some random target, it's most likely a bot...

But I'm not sure if the baddies even are botting or if they just don't know how to do.. Only time will tell

[superstargoddess]

Indeed. If you go to a bg, don't expect ANYONE to actually pay attention to any of the objectives. They're busy getting hks.

[manos1234]

a major reason this happens is imo that you can get as much or more honor by just being at a place where carnage occurs than actually doing the objectives*

As about arena players losing to undergeared people... dunno maybe DPS arena players they are so used having a healer on their back spaming heals that they forget that they are all alone in Bg and do reckless stuff while healers are too busy wondering where the heck their beloved pillars ;D ( and peelers) are to play properly??


*in PuGs at least

[dyce09]

There is no skill in bg's because bg's isn't a place where skilled players go to. Arena is the pvp skill area. No matter what people say about OP classes/make ups; if you go to arenajunkies and look up almost any class make up, you will find high end arena teams (2k+).

BG's is just a place to get honor (and only for the current non-set pieces you need for arena). Once you have all the honor, no need to go to bg's again, (for the skilled players). If you're looking for some skilled bg's, do premades because you'll probably be facing another premade which will be a battle of skill. (Which is essentially arena with more players and objectives)

[ProteinOrcWarrior]

Consider to get a full set of PVP gear you need to do about...

100 hours or more in battlegrounds.

You can't expect everyone to be fully focused for all of those hours. Most will find time to eat/watch a movie while grinding honor.

Rated battlegrounds please come soon.

[Slaman]

Bg's are an art in themselves. I have seen many high ranking arena players (Rival, Duelist, Gladiator, Arena Master, etc) enter a bg and get absolutely destroyed because they think they can just take everyone and pay no attention to how you actually have to win the game. A player with Justicar or Battlemaster rank is very different from a person with Gladiator or Arena Master rank sometimes because of their mindset. A Justicar or Battlemaster knows what they need to do to help win the game, and sometimes these people can be the #1 reason one side wins over the other by capping a base at a key point or holding a certain position or getting the flag back when everyone is fighting in mid, etc. Many times a person who focuses mainly on arena, and therefore has the best gear will go into a battleground and run straight into the opposing side and do absolutely nothing productive other than stall a few of the other team's players and pad their stats on the chart.

Since bg's are so complex and involve 10-40 random people, you will get a huge majority who have absolutely no idea how to win. Most of them will be like the arena junkies and run straight to slaughter, while there will be a few smart and skilled people who will do the things necessary to win the game. Whichever team has more of these people will most likely win. However you can't look past the people who just farm hk's because they might distract the better players on the other team from hindering your players going for objectives.

Then there is of course those who are completely clueless and gearless who get two shot before they do anything at all.

[Wolke]

I love all BG's dont get me wrong, i do atleast 20 each weekend along with my other raids.

But i find there are so many bad players ...

people in deadly getting there face handed to them by people in greens and blues

people in pve gear doing nothing at all .. keyboard turning hardcore

people who cant pvp if there lives depended on a win.

people who are deaf and dont defend bases...

like WTF ... GTFO ... anyone else got this?

http://lolpics.se/?id=313

[rathok]

whats funny is that 1/2 the people you hate are probably botting.

[manos1234]

There is no skill in bg's because bg's isn't a place where skilled players go to. Arena is the pvp skill area. No matter what people say about OP classes/make ups; if you go to arenajunkies and look up almost any class make up, you will find high end arena teams (2k+).

BG's is just a place to get honor (and only for the current non-set pieces you need for arena). Once you have all the honor, no need to go to bg's again, (for the skilled players). If you're looking for some skilled bg's, do premades because you'll probably be facing another premade which will be a battle of skill. (Which is essentially arena with more players and objectives)

You are half right. However BGs potentially take as much or even more skill than arena (since they are not just a deathmatch) to be done properly. The problem is just that winnning or losing does not really make much difference in how you are rewarded unlike arena soi most people CBA to try harder spending more effort for something that will not benefit them proportionaly to the extra effort they should be spending per BG match.
Doubling or tripling the honor and anything else you earn in Bg if you win might fix that


IMO the place that one can show the most ( in case of fighting against the odds) and the least (if lowbe ganking) skill is World PvP. When I see good videos about world PvP I actually get exited unlike watching an arena match which makes me want to fall asleep most of the time or go get some popcorn. Usually it is the same thing: a portion of healspamers doing their best to abuse LoS while the DPSers of each team try to kill the other teams healspamers before they lose their own... seen 20 arena matches and you have seen them all 8)

[Carni]

All the time!

I love key turners, because then I can jump around them for 5 mins just spamming ice lance and they can't get a cast/swing in.

Mmm i agree...you know what you can do to a key turner with 100% Sprint (glyphed) and them be slowed by poison...Cake, tons of it.

[rathok]

Bg's are an art in themselves. I have seen many high ranking arena players (Rival, Duelist, Gladiator, Arena Master, etc) enter a bg and get absolutely destroyed because they think they can just take everyone and pay no attention to how you actually have to win the game. A player with Justicar or Battlemaster rank is very different from a person with Gladiator or Arena Master rank sometimes because of their mindset. A Justicar or Battlemaster knows what they need to do to help win the game, and sometimes these people can be the #1 reason one side wins over the other by capping a base at a key point or holding a certain position or getting the flag back when everyone is fighting in mid, etc. Many times a person who focuses mainly on arena, and therefore has the best gear will go into a battleground and run straight into the opposing side and do absolutely nothing productive other than stall a few of the other team's players and pad their stats on the chart.

Since bg's are so complex and involve 10-40 random people, you will get a huge majority who have absolutely no idea how to win. Most of them will be like the arena junkies and run straight to slaughter, while there will be a few smart and skilled people who will do the things necessary to win the game. Whichever team has more of these people will most likely win. However you can't look past the people who just farm hk's because they might distract the better players on the other team from hindering your players going for objectives.

Then there is of course those who are completely clueless and gearless who get two shot before they do anything at all.

lol, people like you make me laugh. The reason the high rated arena players "suck" in BGs is because they dont care, not because they just cant figure out the "art form" of grinding BGs. If you can figure out how to win 2400+ arena matches or get 2200 in all brackets im pretty sure you can hold your own in a slop-fest BG.

Coordinating 4 CCs on 2 different sets of DR against 2 targets while throwing heals and maintaining top dps is hard, sitting at a flag alone in AB while your up 3-2 is not so hard.

[Bobzor]

I love all BG's dont get me wrong, i do atleast 20 each weekend along with my other raids.

But i find there are so many bad players ...

people in deadly getting there face handed to them by people in greens and blues

people in pve gear doing nothing at all .. keyboard turning hardcore

people who cant pvp if there lives depended on a win.

people who are deaf and dont defend bases...

like WTF ... GTFO ... anyone else got this?

YES YES YES! All this and unworthy noobs who manage to get me down in packs of 5.

[lalartu]

the unfortunate thing about BGs is alot of the time what you need to do to win is boring as hell ex camp an area.

as a decently well geared rogue i can vastly increase my teams win % in AVs just by recapping towers from scubnubs.

however this is boring as shit and usually entails me waiting for the defenders to a.d.d off leaving only the amount i can kill/blind to reclaim a tower.

regretfully i have more fun when im not doing bg objectives.

i think arena has a monopoly on skill in pvp atm. even though i dont feel it is the essense of pvp.

if you look at my pvp macros for arena they are all target=focus or target=mah buddie
and i dont use these much if ever in bgs.

so in my mind they really are different play styles and they are harder to compare.


the other annoying thing about bgs is that people dont care if they die like they do in arenas.
its annoying to have people in all pve gear kamikaze into you, for example combat rogues, all they do is skillingspree you, but its so powerful that it forces you to use evasion/vanish to not die. so some blithering retard just stole one of my cooldowns while keyturning . .great.
perhaps rez timers need to be 45seconds? i dont know just there is not enough emphasis on survival.

hopefully rated bgs will bring its own unique type of skill requirement. and that defending becomes less boring as attacks are planned better etc.

[Slaman]

lol, people like you make me laugh. The reason the high rated arena players "suck" in BGs is because they dont care, not because they just cant figure out the "art form" of grinding BGs. If you can figure out how to win 2400+ arena matches or get 2200 in all brackets im pretty sure you can hold your own in a slop-fest BG.

Coordinating 4 CCs on 2 different sets of DR against 2 targets while throwing heals and maintaining top dps is hard, sitting at a flag alone in AB while your up 3-2 is not so hard.

Thanks for proving my point.

I am fully aware of this and I did not say high rated arena players were bad. They just don't try to win a battleground because they go straight for killing people. Sometimes, they just keep going straight to their death and other times they're skilled enough to hold back a huge number of people. What I'm trying to say is that the fact that they "don't care" is very annoying to most people, especially when they can't hold back a large number of the other team and then call everyone else out for sucking because they won't help to actually win the game. This thread is not about skill in general, it was brought up in light of how people can't seem to play a battleground in order to win.

There's also the greatness of having a high rated arena player come into a battleground and do everything right, and pretty much single-handedly control the outcome of a battle. Unfortunately, it seems this is not usually the case, because as you said, most of them just don't care.

[mordrac]

in my opinion, 95% of all players in bgs have no clue and just run to the front and try to collect kills and get stomped. they tunnel vision hacking on some guy and dont recognize there target is getting healed etc.

there is something else i sometimes recognize. there are people runing around in relentless gear, for sure they do hurt, but when i catch them alone i often beat them, and i only have furious gear. i lookup their armory and see they have a 2k+ rating. so i guess some guys with great gear cant play as well. they get carried by their healers or whatever.

[Exeeter]

Thanks for proving my point.

I am fully aware of this and I did not say high rated arena players were bad. They just don't try to win a battleground because they go straight for killing people. Sometimes, they just keep going straight to their death and other times they're skilled enough to hold back a huge number of people. What I'm trying to say is that the fact that they "don't care" is very annoying to most people, especially when they can't hold back a large number of the other team and then call everyone else out for sucking because they won't help to actually win the game. This thread is not about skill in general, it was brought up in light of how people can't seem to play a battleground in order to win.

There's also the greatness of having a high rated arena player come into a battleground and do everything right, and pretty much single-handedly control the outcome of a battle. Unfortunately, it seems this is not usually the case, because as you said, most of them just don't care.

I could not agree more...

People seem to miss the bigger picture here.... Players will go to where the highest end gear is.... be it pvp or pve.. Unfortunatley right now the highest end gear is only available via arena (pvp that is).

Now before anyone sits here and spits out "STFU nub!, best end game gear is in arena because arena is skillS!".... Bull shit.. Arena is not the end all be all of PVP prowess period.

Trust me... if blizz implamented high end pvp awards for premade competitive 10v10 or 15v15 bgs, with objectives and whatnot...(not quite like rated bgs) skilled players would flock to it... try to obtain reckognition through it..

For the poster that laughed at Slaman, serioulsy.. a player that is in full current season arena gear.. has very little insentive to try his best to win a BG... some people like the objective challange, cooridination and so forth.. jsut for the sake of winning... and nothing more. Trust me, if there was a seperate system of rated competitve premade bgs.. alot more pvpers would "Like" it as well...

Tell me.... is a game of Tennis Doubles that much more prestigous than a game of World class soccer?

[Figoment]

As about arena players losing to undergeared people... dunno maybe DPS arena players they are so used having a healer on their back spaming heals that they forget that they are all alone in Bg and do reckless stuff while healers are too busy wondering where the heck their beloved pillars ;D ( and peelers) are to play properly??

That's why I bring my arena partner to bg's with me

[blahism]

I found a nice pre-made group and have been winning 99.9% of all bgs and loving it probably made 10k gold in selling epic gems hehe..

with that said, find a premade and run with them.. even if you lose they still coordinate enough that the HK is worth it and won't turtle and crap like that

*edit hk not xp