Are Boomkins broken?

[Coulro]

Hey, hoping for some insight here so forgive me for not knowing the class better. We are a casual/mid level raid guild working on Heroic toc25.

Right now we have some nice dps output from most classes but our Moonkins are - consistently - way below everyone else. Looking over the elitist jerks info, it appears that they are properly itemized, cast rotation is correct and they are up above 5k gear score (I know, gs isn't everything, just giving you a sense of what their gear is like).

But we're finish full nights of Northrend Beasts with the boomkins doing a cumulative 3800-4500dps for the night. This isn't one attempt where someone gets a snobold or someone gets a few unlucky fires - it's time after time - 2-3K DPS lower than everyone else.

They aren't dumb players but, seriously, I am starting to have a hard time justifying bringing them instead of a couple more mages or something.

For those that are number crunchers, here's a world of logs from all of last nights Northrend Beasts attempts:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...ses&boss=34796


Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks
Coulro

[mxds]

moonkin are considered hybrid so yea they will do less DPS surrounded by equal skilled/geared players
and we are based on RNG so each weeks our dps could be slightly better or worst on each encounter

HOWEVER

3.8-4.5K dps isnt good for a moonkin, so yea he is supposed to do less DPS then pure DPS class but more then what he is doing atm


EDIT: You need at least one good moonkin for the boost to all ur caster. however not sure why u have 2+ bad moonkin, no reason to have more than 1 if they cannot be as good as other raiders

[Stiggie]

For soulstice: the int trinket is not a good trinket for a boomkin, and the other trinket he/she has isn't fantastic but its ok. All gemming should be for spell power except for when the set bonus results in more spell power, or you have to do sp/spr for your meta. It's good that he/she has the 2 piece set for 8.5, I would suggest they get the 2 pieces t9, even if its just the iLvl 232 gear(they already have the shoulders so one other piece will get the set bonus, and the damage from it is significant). I did T9 in my head and chest, and 8.5 legs/gloves, IMO thats the best combo because I got the 10 man H shoulders, it depends what you have available.

For Krysjustice: His trinkets are not good. Neither really provide much help with dps, he'd do better with the ilvl200 badge trinket and something else. His shoulders are resto, his head enchant is resto, he gemmed for int(on the head), has items with mp5(if anything take stuff with spr), Meta is wrong, and he's missing his 8.5 set bonus(it takes a lot of stats to outweigh this bonus, like 258 gear, however if you arent' doing uld then just get the T9 bonus, it isn't bad). I think he did pretty good dps, looks like he maybe died a lot or wasn't there for a few attempts, his active time was low.

Hope this helps.

[Chimpzilla]

Simple answer is yes moonkins are broken. They can keep up with with pure DPS classes for the most part, but it is so RNG based it isn't even funny. Every other DPS class I've played to could reasonable count spells off as you used em predicting what will come next. Instead, as a moonkin you might cast 5 wraths to proc eclipse one time, and the next time it takes 20 wraths. On top of that it really is silly set bonuses that help keep us keep competing with others.

Personally if you find the moonkins to be good players who know not to stand in fire and are the ones who don't die on fights keep em around. Although you really only need one moonkin there to provide the moonkin buffs. You'll just have to learn that some days they will put out crappy DPS cause the RNG gods are mad at them.

[greysin]

moonkins are right there with spriests at the bottom

but mookins bring 13% damage reduction, spell haste, spell crit and hit

they're like spriests with raid buffs

[Stiggie]

No, they aren't broken. We aren't going to do top dps, but we should be nowhere near the bottom. I'm consistently 5th-8th position now in ToGC, I'm not near the rogues, mages, and hunters, but I'm very near the guys doing 7k DPS.

While we are very RNG dependant, there is only so much you can attribute a drop in dps. Once hitting hit cap(17% raid buffed, or 10% horde, 9% alliance with all our talents) and soft haste cap(where you can't possibly drop the GCD any lower, which is 401 with a shaman dropping WoA totem), steer your stats toward crit to maximize your chance at getting your eclipse off.

Next week on our farm night I'm going to try throwing some gear I've been collecting in to remove my 8.5 bonus and see if throwing in all 245 tier gear is enough to offset the tier 8.5 set bonus. I'm assuming with the stat bonus and 4% wrath/starfire bonus, it SHOULD be enough. In which case I'll lose less dps when not in an eclipse state.

[Coulro]

Thanks for the quick replies. Yes, I assume Booms will be lower than mages and other pure dps classes and, in no way, am I discounting the buffs they bring to the raid.

My hope is that if I (mage) am doing 6700-7200 over the course of a night, I can expect them to do 5100-5600 dps. Right now we're seeing 3800-4500 and - as you guys who have done Heroic Beasts know, when you're learning that fight, getting your lower dps players to each add 800-1000 dps to their game can mean the difference between Gormok easily killed before the worms come and the disastrous alternative.

Plus, I like these people and have raided with them for a long time and I want to help them be better.

Any other gearing suggestions are appreciated.

[Stiggie]

Getting them into ToGC 10 will have a two-fold boon to your raiders. The 245 pieces out of the 10 man are itemized way better for moonkins IMO. The 245 25 man pieces are more resto tuned, but still better than Ulduar gear. The other benefit is that people will become more familiar with the fights, boosting confidence and gear is a win/win situation.

[blahism]

Make sure you're using the triumph idol.. the one that gives 200 crit on moonfire (can't remember name off top head) - makes a world of difference!

[Alzu]

3800-4500 dps is low for a moonkin who runs ToGC. I have mostly ilvl 219-226 gear, few are better and i pull 4k dps in toc. I think there is something wrong with your raids' moonkins :

[Tavin]

"Boomkins aren't broken, You are" !!

Well no, we are not broken imo. But sure elementals seems to be able to out dps us at most fights, except valkyrs (normal and grand).

But your moonkins just seems... really bad. I mean 1 with 3909 dps and 87% active time. The other one with 4991 dps and 66.4% active time? Focus more.
You will beat that in ulduar and should be at at least 5k in toc 10/25 geared.

[superstargoddess]

Yes, very very very very very very very broken. I'm actually going to either switch to healer or dps on the Shaman that I have been leveling, I can't stand it anymore. If we are standing still, everything is awesome, otherwise- it just seems that everything gets all effed up.

[Gigajot]

Moonkins aren't broken, i do 5k dps in resto gear just for you to know

[Abelladonna]

i can pull EASILY 6,5k+ dps on my main boomkin

i have almost all 245 gear

[Aabrahm]

I will say this as nice as possible. If you play a moonkin or know a moonkin who can not keep competitive numbers,... they are doing something wrong. I have been in the top 5 dps for ALL 25 mans (including Uld and togc hard modes) I have had the pleasure of attending in wotlk. We have never been more "balanced" to keep up with other casters. If you can not compete with mages and warlocks, it is you who are broken. If there is a great player behind a lock or mage, then yes, you may have some difficulty keeping up, but judging by the two moonkins in your raid, they are doing many, many things wrong. Hit (until capped), SP, Haste, Crit. Mana regen needs to be avoided at all costs.


Send your boomkins to EJ, and have them read every moonkin post. Have them talk to other good moonkins on your server. Then have them test on dummies with different gear. Finally,.... worse case scenario: those two moonkins just suck.

[Aluana]

moonkins are working as intended... im top 5-8 on almost every fight that my guild does and top (of course) on a couple but i've never been at the bottom of any 25man dps charts since i joined my guild... i think your boomkins literally need to learn their class and what's expected of them...

[ElAmigo]

i dont know how if there is a huuuuge difference between voa and northrend beasts, but with my druid http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...pine&n=Itsomar i pull between 4 to 5k dps on those fights and i really dont consider my self an amazing player. so maybe it could just be a l2p issue. tho they can be very rng based but if they are in toc gear then the bad rng should be to a minimum, in other words they should be getting those eclipse procs very often.

[Ashen88]

Let me put something in perspective.

On my worst nights, I've done around an average of 6.8k DPS on things like Heroic Beasts and roughly 8.6K on Anub'arak Heroic.
Even on my best nights, I do not ever finish in the top 5 to 7 in my guild, and that's because most of our other players are extremely excellent.

If as a Moonkin, you can't do at least 6k in a smattering of ToC/ToGC/Ulduar gear, then you're doing something wrong. If as a Moonkin, you're coming consistently in the top of your guild's charts, they're doing something wrong.

[bockbear]

Make sure you're using the triumph idol.. the one that gives 200 crit on moonfire (can't remember name off top head) - makes a world of difference!

They both have it based on their "buffs gained"


They should be over 5K for this fight, assuming decent gear (I didn't do armory). They should be easily over 6K for Koralon too, so that indicates a problem. I don't have any Heroic 25 or 10 man gear, 2x T8 and 2x T9 (But I do have the Anub trinket) and I was finally this week able to push 7.2K on Koralon (which is about as close to a Patchwerk fight as we see nowadays) without any heroism.


Neither has exceptional DOT or Eclipse uptime. That either indicates a severe lack of crit, or inattention to play.

[bockbear]

I have to reiterate: moonkin in general are not broken.

But one can't just smash random keys and do OK.

I am usually now in the top 5 DPS if we have a caster heavy group, but I'll drop to bottom 6 if we have better buffs for the melee.

A lot of it also depends on how much I concentrate and how much movement the fight requires.