Thread: Gems as holy

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  1. #21

    Re: Gems as holy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasy777
    ...but how do you gem if you're doing both holy and disc.

    Not getting a separate set of gear, how do you deal with MP5 vs spirit, when the gear is going to be used with both specs.

    Using spirit gems seems kind of a waste when you're healing as disc. Not so much as holy.. though I would prefer spirit.
    If you're going Hybrid, gem full Int. It works for both, though my own experiences have found Intellect/Spirit hybrids better for Holy, pure raw intellect still works. And if you're going hybrid, try to avoid blue slots, apart from activating your meta gem and really good socket bonuses, in which case you'd probably want mp5 because of the gains as Discipline (Holy can use mp5, badly, but it can alot more than discipline can use spirit).
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  2. #22

    Re: Gems as holy

    Regen mechanics (short version):

    1 MP5 costs 2 itemization points.
    1 stat costs 1 itemization points.
    In an idea world you can then choose between 0.5 MP5 and 1 int or 1 spirit.

    MP5
    This stat never increase in effect. It simply does not gain additional effects from anything. easy to calculate with, very boring.

    Spirit
    Follows the very sick formula of
    MP5 = 5 * (0.001 + sqrt(Int) * Spirit * Base_Regen) * 0.60 rounded up
    the 5 is because we want MP5 instead of MP1. The 0.001 is for rounding issues. sqrt(int) is a boon wher spirit regen scales with int. Spirit is the spirit number on your character sheet. Base_regen is 0.005575 at lvl 80. sqrt(1293 int) * 0.005575 = 1, making these two numbers cancel eachother out at that level. The 0.60 multiplier was added in 3.1, when the spirit nerf hit.

    The easy way of reading this formula is that 1 spirit gives 0.6 MP5 (while not casting) at 1293 intellect. If you are casting, meditation gives you half; 0.3 MP5. This is increased by spirit bonuses from Spirit of Redemption (+5%) or Enlightenment (+6%), BoK (+10%) and holy concentration (up to +50%).

    My rule of thumb is that discpriests get around 0.4 MP5 per point of spirit, while holypriests get around 0.5-0.55 MP5 per point of spirit depending on HolyConc uptime. High intellect will nudge this slightly, but not in a very notable fashion. For T9 discpriests, MP5 is better than spirit. For T9 holypriests, Spirit is better than MP5, and it also gives spellpower and is vastly superior while not casting. At <T8 gear levels, MP5 is vastly superior to spirit for all priests.

    Intellect
    1 int gives 15 max mana. Discpriests can increase this by Mental Strength (+15%) and BoK (+10%). Holypriests only get the bonus from BoK (+10%).

    - Replenishment gives 0.15 MP5 per point of intellect
    - Shadowfiend gives around 0.12-0.22 MP5 per point of intellect (depending on whether used with Hymn of Hope)
    - Mana tide totem gives 0.06 MP5 per point of intellect
    - Hymn of Hope gives around 0.04 MP5 per point of intellect, but vastly more if stacked
    - Blood Elves also get 0.02 MP5 from Arcane Torrent.

    Before booster talents/effects and counting fro BoK, this totals up to around 0.4-0.5 MP5 per point of intellect. Discpriests witll get +15% extra, meaning we're closer to just below 0.6 MP5 per point of intellect. This makes int the best regen stat in the game for discpriests. It is also very good for holypriests in general.

    Of course, intellect also gives more regen per point of spirit you have. It's a hard calculation, but not unnotable, especially if you have a lot of spirit on your gear.

    In addition, intellect gives 15 max mana, which will increase sustainability for your healer for a very notable amount of time. If you run OOM in 4 minutes with 20k mana, having 30k mana will allow you to last for 6 minutes. By that time, you will have a new shadowfiend available, increasing your longevity by a ridiculous amount compared to any other regen mechanic. Calculating the benefit of 15 more mana is very hard, but the payoff from intellect is vastly superior to the payoff from spirit or MP5 due to this effect.

    And lastly, int also gives a small anount of crit, which is always welcome!
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  3. #23

    Re: Gems as holy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dargin
    SP in red, SP-int in yellow, SP-spirit in blue
    This

  4. #24

    Re: Gems as holy

    I gem SP/Haste in red & yellow and SP/Spirit in blue. I dont heal alot but if I do , mana is a non-Issue (grouped with 1Shaman/2 Feral). The Fights are very short too these days..and the longer fights have small breaks in it like Mimiron.

    Generally to say is: It depends on your gear and on your raid. Regen gems for startes and throuthput gems(haste/SP) for endgear.. Dunno if crit is a valueable Throughput stat since crit heals goes alot into overheal. I see it as a regstat (50% spiritreg procc)

  5. #25

    Re: Gems as holy

    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40123 = Brilliant King's Amber. Use it
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/general-discussions-22/world-of-warcraft-lore-by-richard-knaak-(spoilers)/

  6. #26

    Re: Gems as holy

    At my gear level, I've found it better to gem primarily for throughput:

    Red - SP.
    Yellow - SP / Int (my haste is pretty high, and I normally detest gemming for haste / crit anyway).
    Blue - SP / Spirit.

    The additional Int I get from my yellow sockets makes my gemming pretty balanced, resulting in very good throughput, while still being able to go the whole fight without an Innervate (except in extreme circumstances).

    YMMV.

    For Regen:

    Red - SP / Int.
    Yellow - Int.
    Blue - Int / Spirit.

  7. #27

    Re: Gems as holy

    Quote Originally Posted by anduhrew
    I'm like you on this. At first, I gemmed for regen;

    Red = SP/Int
    Yellow = Int
    Blue = Int/Spi

    However, as my gear is getting better, and I reach towards BiS gear, I find that the extra Int/Spi is not needed, and I can gem towards SP instead of worrying about regen stats. I also find that gemming for Haste/Crit is not needed, since there is plenty form ToC and ToGC gear alone. Of couse, as I pick up the BiS gear, it'll be gemmed towards SP (Also, a Solace of the fallen/defeated helps a lot in getting you away from regen stats :P) ;

    Red = SP
    Yellow = SP/Int
    Blue = SP/Spi
    If you're having no mana problems, why not try to get some spell/crit/haste items?

    Currently i'm sitting at 2614 SP, 25% holy crit, 650 haste + near 30k mana unbuffed, and i can still run into mana problems on twins heroic with heavy PoH usage.
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  8. #28

    Re: Gems as holy

    My priest(holy) buddy just started playing again and has all lvl 200+ gear (he stopped right as ulduar came out) and he asked me this very same question. I was hardpressed to answer it for him, whereas my main is a holy pally, i gem for pure INT, and i was under the impression that priest would gem SP.

    Ive gotten the answer to the whole which gem to used by reading your posts, but my next question is (?) Do you gem for socket bonus's on priests? I mean a lot of people are recommending a specific gem for each color, as a pally i ignore most of my socket bonus's and only use 1 gem thats not pure INT to get my meta bonus.
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  9. #29
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Gems as holy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    If you're going Hybrid, gem full Int. It works for both, though my own experiences have found Intellect/Spirit hybrids better for Holy, pure raw intellect still works. And if you're going hybrid, try to avoid blue slots, apart from activating your meta gem and really good socket bonuses, in which case you'd probably want mp5 because of the gains as Discipline (Holy can use mp5, badly, but it can alot more than discipline can use spirit).
    I agree with favoring pure Intellect for regen over an Intellect/Spirit split if you're switching to Discipline regularly. I don't think it will work quite as well for Holy as splitting, but it's a reasonable compromise to make the gear more useful for both specs.

    I would disagree with favoring MP5 in this scenario for the exact same reason. While MP5 is more useful to Discipline than Spirit is, both are very... meh and essentially a waste. Meanwhile, Spirit is head and shoulders above MP5 for Holy. So while I would still probably recommend avoiding blue sockets except for meta or good bonuses, I would still recommend choosing Spirit over MP5.

    Of course, this balance really depends on how much you play both specs as well. I am Holy/Disc, but I really only play Discipline for a few encounters where stacking Discipline is favorable (Vezax, FC, etc.) or when the usual Discipline Priest or the Holy Paladin can't make it. Thus, I still gear with Holy in mind since that's usually what I'll be for progression. I end up with a more Spirit and Haste than I need as Discipline, but holding onto a few older pieces and side-grades and gemming them strictly for Discipline works just fine. I think I end up lower on mana than where I could be as Discipline, but I still don't have mana problems. IOW, my recommendation is to gem for a balance if you're playing both a lot, but if you only off-spec Disc some, it may not be worthwhile.

  10. #30

    Re: Gems as holy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronic420
    Do you gem for socket bonus's on priests? I mean a lot of people are recommending a specific gem for each color, as a pally i ignore most of my socket bonus's and only use 1 gem thats not pure INT to get my meta bonus.
    The good thing about Priests is we can use all gem colors without being a huge HPS loss (in terms of throughput). Red sockets should always be SP (imo). Blue and Yellow sockets give you a little giggle room and you can gem according to your personal preference (or whatever you're lacking from gear). As a general rule of thumbs, I do gem the appropriate gem for the socket if the socket bonus is Spell Power. The tiny amount of crit / haste / int / spirit you get from socket bonuses wont really make a difference and you get more out of the specific piece if you just gem for the throughput (SP) or regen (Int / SP / Spirit) stats of your choice.

    I'm currently sitting at (self-buffed) 3.3k SP, 21% crit (a bit low, want to get it to ~30% raid buffed), 18.5% haste and over 500 mp5 (with both Solace trinkets). No mana issues in raids (even H Twins25) and really comfortable about my throughput.

  11. #31

    Re: Gems as holy

    I would say priests are one of the few classes that you can really go "wrong". There are a lot of gem choices that can and will fit depending on personal playstyle as well as personal preference.

    There are some mmmm "less" than ideal gems, but overall as long as you keep it to spirit, SP, int, or haste I wouldn't say that one gem was more wrong than another. It all depends on where your stats are and how you feel about them, as well as things like spell usage/rotation.

  12. #32
    The Patient Fryr's Avatar
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    Re: Gems as holy

    Red: Spell Power(So I can Hit people in the face harder with renews!)
    Blue: Spell Power + Spirit(The face thing + a more stable regen)
    Yellow: Haste(Quicker response times)

  13. #33

    Re: Gems as holy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bossa
    What is the best gems to gem as a holy priest? My brother runs arround with critt gems, saying its the best. But i have a hard time beliving that.
    So, can someone either confirm or deny this?
    Intelect gems untill you eliminate the risk of going out of mana. From there on, Spell Power all the way.
    Use SP/Spirit or Int/Spirit to get the blue gem requirements for the Meta.

  14. #34
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Re: Gems as holy

    Just spec Disc and be happy. Higher mp5... more mana... what more can I say?

  15. #35

    Re: Gems as holy

    thanks for the insight guys, was a useful thread ;-)
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  16. #36

    Re: Gems as holy

    Int in yellow
    SP or sp/int in red
    int spirit in blue

  17. #37

    Re: Gems as holy

    So, basically, get all the socket bonuses you can?
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  18. #38

    Re: Gems as holy

    i also gem 23 spell in red, 12 spell 10 int in yellow and 12 spell 10 spirit in blue, taking pretty much every socket bonus.
    whatever you gem for, remember to never ever use 20int and 23 spell gems at the same time, as two times 12 spell 10 int is superior.
    more general, using 23 spell gems does only make sense if you have no gem without spell.
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