Armor penetration dilemma

[Elendyl]

As arms it is better having around 75% arp passive (including food, elixir, battle stance and T9x2 bonuses) without GT or 56% arp passive that reach 100% with GT proc?
I think that everything depends from how much time you fight with the GT proc active. Probably during a 10 minutes fight you have 3 minutes of 100% arp cause GT procs, but for the other 7 minutes you have only the soft cap of 56% arp. In such situation in my opinion should be better having a constant 75% passive arp during all the fight duration.
What do you think about this?

[Sidonis]

More penetration is always good.

[Hakto]

Not really.

the reason being that when you have 100% arp active you get a massive dps increase over when you have only 75% arp.


From wowwiki
Relative DPS reduction for each 5k armor 0 23% 19% 16% 14% 12% 11% 10% 9% 8% 7.5%

you can see that the first 5k armour provides the most dmg reduction (23%) so therefore the more of that last armour you can ignore (penetrate) the more damage you will do.

basically the closer to 100% arp you get the more damage you do as the less damage reduction is being applied (armour has diminishing returns on dmg reduction)

[Elendyl]

the reason being that when you have 100% arp active you get a massive dps increase over when you have only 75% arp.

Yes ok, but my doubt is: you can have a better dps with 100% arp for 3 minutes (when GT procs) or with 75% arp for 10 minutes during a fight of 10 minutes?
Your answer didn't clarify the "time" aspect...

[Hakto]

Yes ok, but my doubt is: you can have a better dps with 100% arp for 3 minutes (when GT procs) or with 75% arp for 10 minutes during a fight of 10 minutes?
Your answer didn't clarify the "time" aspect...

yes because you have 55% arp even w/o the gt proc

[JukeSkywalker]

use the grim toll hes saying.

however, whoever said that arpen has diminishing returns on damage reduction is lying through their teeth. it has linear returns on damage reduction. HOWEVER, it DOES have diminishing returns with ITSELF, which is why arpen has exponential returns as you stack it.

[Hakto]

use the grim toll hes saying.

however, whoever said that arpen has diminishing returns on damage reduction is lying through their teeth. it has linear returns on damage reduction. HOWEVER, it DOES have diminishing returns with ITSELF, which is why arpen has exponential returns as you stack it.

you could learn to read: ARMOUR has diminishing returns on damage reduction.

[bals]

however, whoever said that arpen has diminishing returns on damage reduction is lying through their teeth. it has linear returns on damage reduction. HOWEVER, it DOES have diminishing returns with ITSELF, which is why arpen has exponential returns as you stack it.

so arpen has diminishing returns but it has exponential returns as you stack it?

edit: nevermind above i read over it a bit to fast. but it DOES NOT have a linear returns on damage reduction

[SavageJ]

To simplify this :

if you can have 80% ArP 100% of the time, that is better for Arms than 56% during non grim toll procs.

The grim toll outlived its usefulness to Arms warriors mid Ulduar. You can still use it if you want, but you'll get more bang for your buck shooting for the passive 100% cap.

[Hakto]

To simplify this :

if you can have 80% ArP 100% of the time, that is better for Arms than 56% during non grim toll procs.

The grim toll outlived its usefulness to Arms warriors mid Ulduar. You can still use it if you want, but you'll get more bang for your buck shooting for the passive 100% cap.

passive 100% yes - not passive 75%

[Hakto]

Using RAWR: and plugging in full raid buffs and arp food. Str has a sep rating of 1.26 - arp has a sep rating of 1.04.

Your arp is at 68.52% averaging out procs.

Now think of it like this, popping bladestorm while you have a grim toll proc etc is going to provide more dps than having 75% passive because of the dimishing returns on armour as I stated before.



Rawr puts your current dps at 5.7k - dropping gt and gemming arp etc drops it to 5.6

[quez]

I messed around with spreadsheets a while ago because I didnt know if I were to go with MJ+DC or MJ+DMC:G and i came up with that i needed aprox ~80% passive ArP to gain dps.

Now that was for fury and Im running with dbb and toc25 gear.

[Muxxon]

Str has a sep rating of 1.26

So 1 strength is worth 1.26 strength? ???
lolwut

[Masataro]

Thank God Blizz is removing arp in cataclysm. Theese threads make up 50% of the warrior-forums :P

[Hakto]

So 1 strength is worth 1.26 strength? ???
lolwut

rawr is rawr - I dont have access to landsouls unfortunately

[mackmustard]

I raid as arms, and got rid of my Mjolnir and replaced it with Banner of Victory from 5man ToC and using Heroic Deaths Verdict along with it. I've come to the point where Banner of Victory/DV is a DPS increase over even using Greatness/DV since I'm at 93%-ish ArP with bstance,t9 bonus, and arp food. The only trinkets better then Banner at high ArP are Dark Matter and Deaths Verdicts according to Landsouls.

In answer to the OP's question, once you can hit about 82-84% (I can't remember the exact number while I was gearing up but its somewhere inbetween their) from regemming pure ArP+t9bonus+food+bstance, you're better off to replace Mjolnir or Grim toll and use Banner as one of your trinkets if you dont have two DV's or a DV and Dark Matter.

I'd also like to add that http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40591 and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45562 (cheap and easy to make) are both better then Boots off Algalon 25, Battlelord Plate Boots,and even Anub 25 normal mode if you don't need the expertise at that point. For arms, that is.

[georgez]

So 1 strength is worth 1.26 strength? ???
lolwut

talent +20% from the fury tree?

[insurgi]

official NERD thread ^^
hello nerds

[Pieterman]

other trinket choise is..?