Arenas need to be abolished

[Skultharion]

Now that I got your attention, all you QQ'ing PvE-ers, I'm just here to make my stand over the controversy that the 'Arenas were a mistake' interview created.

Number one, and more importantly, dear PvE-ers, kindly gtfo our forum, xoxo. All I am seeing these days are posts by PvE-ers in the 'PvP - Arena' complaining about how bad arenas are and the negative impacts it had on the game. Please, do that in PvE forums, not in 'PvP - Arena' as this forum was made to discuss strategies, comps, classes, gameplay and etc, not for you people to go 'OMG ARENAS AFFECTS PVE TOO, REMOVE IT!'

Now that I got that off my chest, I would like to say that even though PvP does affect PvE, it works vice versa too, and perhaps, the changes were needed.

If a spell hits too hard in a raid, it will most likely be tuned down to keep the classes in check. You might not think of this, but the limited offensive stats us PvPers have causes these changes to affect us much more greatly than you, a classic case of this is the Feral Druid nerf in 3.1, where ALL the abilities of a Cat has its based damage lowered.

In contrast, if a something hits too hard in PvP, e.g Explosive Shot in 3.0, it it most probably hitting too hard in PvE too, and therefore a nerf will also be called for.

On another note, Arenas bring about true competitive play in WoW, with proper planning, strategies, gearsets, comps and etc. Similar to PvE, however, PvE focuses on teamwork, where all of you have to work together to down one boss. DPS meters are bull, who gives a shit about topping charts if you can't move out of fires? There isn't real competitiveness amongst players in BGs neither, as it's just one big ass area where there is a sole objective, and less emphasis on PvP. AFKers and botter run amock in there, if BGs would allow gear, anybody with 3rd party software would most probably have the top end gear in no time.

Also, I personally challenge ANY of you who says that Arenas are a bad idea to step up and link an armory of your own character with a rating of 2000 and above. Not asking for much, just a mediocre rating, chances are, if you can't even manage that, you don't understand the mechanics of Arenas enough to comment on its 'imbalances' (in lack of a better word).

Those of you who wants BGs to hand out top end gear for PvP, think about this, should we get top end PvE gear by killing normal mobs around the world, say a kobold?

And also, if you think that PvPers put less effort to do well in arenas than PvE-ers do to killing a boss, you are very sadly mistaken. The focus needed for PvP is definitely equal or not more than what is needed for PvE. You're competing against an actual person here, not scripted artificial intelligence.

In totality, arenas are most definitely not a mistake by blizzard, the dedication of top-end PvPers match those of top-end PvE-ers, meaning that these 2 aspects of the game are on par with each other.

Please, stop posting on our forums trying to say how bad Arenas are when you yourself do not understand the amount of work we PvPers to be successful. It ain't all about classes and cookie cutter comps.

Remember, fish are friends, not food.
o wait

[Testeagle]

Wonder who pissed in your wheaties this morning, on a side note shouldn't you be practicing for pvp instead of QQ'ing on the forums?

[Moddycss]

I'm a PvE'er and all i have to say is:

Well said. i tried in BC to PvP in arena's at i higher level. i did 1400 rating in faction blues with a rogue(me)/retri pally combo 2v2
and i can confirm everything you say. maybe even say: in arenas you need to focus more. a few mistakes can be disastrous.

well done. very well done

[Ciix]

your point is entirely valid. i am a TERRIBLE PvPer, and i can understand that versing another player has different mechanics and therefore a different type of difficulty. it may be no harder than PvE, just a different type of "hard".

for example, you explained a PvE as a scripted fight. yeah sure, it is, but that doesnt make it any easier. Anub Phase 3 hardmode, you know that swarm is coming, but it doesnt make it any easier to heal through. there's also some RNG involved, which is the same in PvP, with people using various talents to counter/heal. but then, a decent PvPer should be able to somewhat predict what will happen in different situation by knowing their opponents class/abilities.


i guess what im trying to say is, PvP is great, sure, should be a part of the game. however, this game is built around LORE. and therefore is primarily PvE. as such, the PvP aspect of the game, while respectable in its own right, SHOULD NOT INFLUENCE THE REST OF THE GAME.

if i wanted to play a game that was based around PvP, id be playing warhammer.

so its understandable when someone who plays this game for the PvE side of it, has their talents/abilities changed because a bunch of whiny (possibly unskilled) PvPer's didn't like that they couldnt kill the (e.g.) resto druid.

the solution i see is to have PvP servers with their own "version" (if you like) of the game, where their talent changes and what-not are confined to their servers. instead of having a blanket approach to changes. current PvP/PvE servers would remain primarily PvE and the PvPer's could either change to a solely PvP server or put up with having the same abilities in PvP as PvE. sure, this means things would be imba, but you'd do this at your own risk and have no right to QQ.

tldr: dont change PvE for PvP. if you want PvP, play warhammer or petition blizzard for your own servers and game versions.

ps. before you all go BUT WE HAS PVP SERVERS NUB!11!!!11ONE!!ONE11!!!!, i want different versions on the game with all the little PvP tweaks you want so they dont affect PvE.

[Eats Compost]

your point is entirely valid. i am a TERRIBLE PvPer, and i can understand that versing another player has different mechanics and therefore a different type of difficulty. it may be no harder than PvE, just a different type of "hard".

I'll stop you there. WoW PvE is stupidly easy - the hard part is just getting 25 people to do the right thing. I don't PvP much, but I can safetly say that top-tier PvP, no matter how you slice it, is harder than top-tier PvE, requiring better class knowledge, reflexes and awareness.

[marv3llous]

Ciix: Or Blizzard could just build a different template of talents and skills for BGs/Arenas. That way they could set both aspects free! They wouldnt have to balance between two different mechanics.

[sleekit]

hmmm who's opinion do i value more on the subject ?

the guy responsable for the creation of WoW and one of the 100 most influential people in the world or Skultharion, random MMO champion forum dude . . .

never set foot in Arena and never will

if i want to play small map team deathmatch i'll fire up TF2

it has no place in an MMO

[Deleted]

all i can say about this pvp - pve argue is... God people are stupid :

[Creptius]

Its funny because alot of people enjoy / only play wow for arena and i am one of them when bc came out and arena was introduced so many more people joined and now its one of the biggest e sports out there, and yes pvp does take alot more skill than pve, pve is stupid easy compared to pvp in the 2350+ bracket(depending on your bg group) and pve isn't even that hard its not like you have super fast reflexes in pvp try to counter spell a fel dom and stop the warlock from casting it and make it go away then complain about pvp sucking

kthnxbi

my grammar sucks im 12 years old

[Deleted]

all i can say about this pvp - pve argue is... God people are stupid :

QFT

Obviously PvP is harder than PvE ._.

[Ponko]

hmmm who's opinion do i value more on the subject ?

the guy responsable for the creation of WoW and one of the 100 most influential people in the world or Skultharion, random MMO champion forum dude . . .

never set foot in Arena and never will

if i want to play small map team deathmatch i'll fire up TF2

it has no place in an MMO

What a complete tool you are. You could actually set foot in arena and love the challenge and the thrill of beating a high rated team. It's people like you that ruin this world, people love to play arena just as people enjoy sports; if you don't like it tough, you dont see pvp'rs QQ about PvE.

WHERE IS THIS PVE IMBALANCE????? are you morons completely blindsided to see what an amazing job blizzard have done to balance all the classes around PvE and PvP. Stop being spoiled immature pricks and appreciate what you've got. Never have so many classes been able to compete for top end meters and so many specs viable for PvE and PvP.

You lot should be ashamed, its pathetic.

[Ciix]

I'll stop you there. WoW PvE is stupidly easy - the hard part is just getting 25 people to do the right thing. I don't PvP much, but I can safetly say that top-tier PvP, no matter how you slice it, is harder than top-tier PvE, requiring better class knowledge, reflexes and awareness.

then you can link your 25 Tribute to Insane Skill then? i'm not trying to flame you or anything, but saying that it takes 25 players to do the right thing is just like saying it takes 2, 3 or 5 people to do the same thing in arena. doing the hardmodes requires class knowledge, reflexes and awareness. im not saying its in anyway more difficult, but PvP is all based on, i cast this > he can do this or this > i can only counter this > he casts what i can't counter > try to recover. that is obviously very simplified but how is that different to something like (again) anub. anub casts swarm > everyone starts to die > 7 people counter it heals on 25 people > then he does penetrating cold (just like the can't be countered thing) > and you try and recover with heals/frost prot pots, shields, cooldowns etc.

like i said, im not trying to take anything away from PvP, but i do believe its just a different kind of difficulty and should be a SEPARATE part of this PvE game.

[strahdowns]

hum i look at this in both views and u have some good points but really if u want to play a game were its even why not just play a fps. No stats, no better gear, no better comp makeup just good fps action. ps sorry about the english :-\

[tosa]

I'll stop you there. WoW PvE is stupidly easy - the hard part is just getting 25 people to do the right thing. I don't PvP much, but I can safetly say that top-tier PvP, no matter how you slice it, is harder than top-tier PvE, requiring better class knowledge, reflexes and awareness.

Please feel free to link your alone in the darkness achievement, tribute to immortality (25man) or firefighter achievements.

i stopped playing arena after they released ruins of lordearon because all the arena maps are bored and horrbily made. And the woltk ones are even worse. I used to be decent at pvp having a warlord title for my old main my warrior and i managed rival (yeah i know its nothing special) in season one playing 10 games a week with a healer in mostly greens(i was in kara and heroics gear with 0 resillience).

With faceroll combos <Insert FoTM team here> arenas arent exactly for highly skilled people untill you reach the nosebleed section reserved for the elitist of the elite kids. I watched a dk in levelling blues/greens faceroll people in season 5/6 (i cant remember i dont pay that much attention) so tell me how hard it is some more please.

If you want a good pvp game your playing the wrong one.

Warhammers thats way fred ------------->

[Ponko]

then you can link your 25 Tribute to Insane Skill then? i'm not trying to flame you or anything, but saying that it takes 25 players to do the right thing is just like saying it takes 2, 3 or 5 people to do the same thing in arena. doing the hardmodes requires class knowledge, reflexes and awareness. im not saying its in anyway more difficult, but PvP is all based on, i cast this > he can do this or this > i can only counter this > he casts what i can't counter > try to recover. that is obviously very simplified but how is that different to something like (again) anub. anub casts swarm > everyone starts to die > 7 people counter it heals on 25 people > then he does penetrating cold (just like the can't be countered thing) > and you try and recover with heals/frost prot pots, shields, cooldowns etc.

like i said, im not trying to take anything away from PvP, but i do believe its just a different kind of difficulty and should be a SEPARATE part of this PvE game.

Those achievements are only hard because this game is over the internet, top end guilds will even admit that these can be down to luck of the draw. Make a mistake in PvE 95% of the time you can get away with it, in pvp this is a different issue. It's HARDER to get 25 competent players that know how to play than the actual encounter itself. I've seen players with high-end pve titles who don't know anything about other classes and their abilities (even their own) they just repeat the same encounter until they score a kill, that is PvE. In pvp every game counts, losing 10 games can drastically affect your rating.

[Ponko]

Please feel free to link your alone in the darkness achievement, tribute to immortality (25man) or firefighter achievements.

i stopped playing arena after they released ruins of lordearon because all the arena maps are bored and horrbily made. And the woltk ones are even worse. I used to be decent at pvp having a warlord title for my old main my warrior and i managed rival (yeah i know its nothing special) in season one playing 10 games a week with a healer in mostly greens(i was in kara and heroics gear with 0 resillience).

With faceroll combos <Insert FoTM team here> arenas arent exactly for highly skilled people untill you reach the nosebleed section reserved for the elitist of the elite kids. I watched a dk in levelling blues/greens faceroll people in season 5/6 (i cant remember i dont pay that much attention) so tell me how hard it is some more please.

If you want a good pvp game your playing the wrong one.

Warhammers thats way fred ------------->

For starters wow pvp and pve is great.

second, what happens when 2 FoTM teams go off against eachother? do they OP eachother to death and end it in a draw? so both lose points; how is anybody gaining rating these days. I can think of so many faceroll comps that tbh nearly every viable comp these days is faceroll, so if thats the case both teams faerolling should have evenly matched game.

ps those achievements are not hard, just stack the right classes and abuse the game mechanics for a world first.

before i forget tell me what game have you EVER played that the top end raiding guilds or teams aren't elitest. Theres a good reason for it, they are good at the game and are proud because of it. That does not in anyway strictly go alongside pvp, heck I think you'll find people are elitest about their own countries, even if they had no participation in what they did.

[Havök]

[Nayto]

optimal skill use and standing in the

then you can link your 25 Tribute to Insane Skill then? i'm not trying to flame you or anything, but saying that it takes 25 players to do the right thing is just like saying it takes 2, 3 or 5 people to do the same thing in arena. doing the hardmodes requires class knowledge, reflexes and awareness. im not saying its in anyway more difficult, but PvP is all based on, i cast this > he can do this or this > i can only counter this > he casts what i can't counter > try to recover. that is obviously very simplified but how is that different to something like (again) anub. anub casts swarm > everyone starts to die > 7 people counter it heals on 25 people > then he does penetrating cold (just like the can't be countered thing) > and you try and recover with heals/frost prot pots, shields, cooldowns etc.

like i said, im not trying to take anything away from PvP, but i do believe its just a different kind of difficulty and should be a SEPARATE part of this PvE game.

Who said wow was a PVE game?

and..Anub casting locust swarm at X% is not the same as "i cast this > he can do this or this > i can only counter this > he casts what i can't counter > try to recover". arena requires execllent awareness to know when your opponets use key abilities, and how to counter it, or how to spot a mistake and take advantage. PVE is scripted and predictable, its not easy, no... but its very different.

[Bigj]

Wait, i like the OP's post.

Whining from pve-ers... interesting considering most talent changes that are made are because the pvp-ers whined so hard about them until blizz changed them, affecting pve because of pvp whine.

[sleekit]

What a complete tool you are. You could actually set foot in arena and love the challenge and the thrill of beating a high rated team. It's people like you that ruin this world, people love to play arena just as people enjoy sports; if you don't like it tough, you dont see pvp'rs QQ about PvE.

WHERE IS THIS PVE IMBALANCE????? are you morons completely blindsided to see what an amazing job blizzard have done to balance all the classes around PvE and PvP. Stop being spoiled immature pricks and appreciate what you've got. Never have so many classes been able to compete for top end meters and so many specs viable for PvE and PvP.

You lot should be ashamed, its pathetic.

why would i do that ?

i installed a Warcraft MMO because i was excited at two things:

the prospect of the continuation of the superb storytelling and quality present in WC3

and

the prospect of large scale battles (which is what an MMO can uniquely offer) between the Horde and Alliance.

you can prattle on about 'challenge' and 'sport' all you want. i'm simply not interested. 10 years ago i was member of one of the highest ranked UT clans in Europe so you can attempt to preach to me about the 'thrill' of e-sports all you want but the simple fact is this: there are probably hundreds of games which do small map team deathmatch PvP better than WoWs shoehorned and ill conceived Arenas (and at least 8 of them are installed on my own PC) and the only reason WoWs Arenas currently get a spot at some of the e-sports tables is because of the financial muscle and power of the Blizzard brand.

your point in relation to balance completely ignores the fact that the constant under the microscope tweaking of knife-edge balance required to keep Arena ticking over was never actually needed before its inclusion and has become a huge and over representative workload for Blizzard that has undoubtedly affected the time they can spend on working on the rest of the fabric of the game as a whole which is what Rob Pardo points at directly in the interview as the reason he considers Arenas their biggest mistake.

fin.

PS. you've got 8 posts and you managed 4 personal attacks in violation of the Forum Guidelines in a single response to 5 sentences. if you want your postage here to hit double figures i seriously suggest you tone down the insults.