Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

[Pumps]

All the gating of ToGC, with none of the attempts timed to loot. Sounds like a win/win to me!

Sounds like a lose lose to me - this means even longer until cataclysm is out - all because of this raid crap

[hamper]

I don't see why blizzard wants to punish the players that attempt to be the best. I don't understand it at all. Sure being in the top % of players requires 4-6 hours of raiding 5-6 days a week, but still forcing a funnel effect on every single one of them is a bit ridiculous. I'm hoping that whoever made that decision gets fired when cataclysm comes.

[Velzira]

LOL @ the amount of tears this thread has.

5 attempts on a boss per week? Seems reasonable. If you wipe 5 times, chances are you aren't going to get it and should go back to Naxx and practice how to raid.

Parts being released a little at a time is also good, douche world first guilds who spend 9 hours a day raiding just to get the world first won't be able to topple Arthas in week 1.

[bullseyed]

Its only purpose is to limit the pace of progression, irregardless of difficulty.

Oh does using strikethrough's make me cooler?

Why am I not surprised that this paladin is so retarded that he doesn't know what "irregardless" means?

Oh right, because he plays the easiest class in the game.

[Rellekk]

"There will be no explicit rewards for defeating the Lich King with a specific number of attempts remaining as there was with Trial of the Grand Crusader. There will also not be an achievement to complete Icecrown Citadel without being defeated by a boss encounter, or letting a raid member die. (i.e. A Tribute to Insanity)."

so, the whole point of the limitations is just to... limit? so people don't trample through heroic content in 1 week?

not very conforting =(

Sunwell was done exactly the way they are doing it. it deff ends up being a much better way to launch a raid. keeps people entertained longer n dont get burnt out too fast

[Kargotha]

Not only will this be rather lame but what do you want us to do blizzard really.

Usual raid schedule:

Wednesday: ICC first 4
Thursday: Totc and Totgc

Sunday-Tuesday: ?

Go out and do something that isn't behind a computer for 5 hours. I thought that answer would be obvious.

[Brodster]

No they are just trying to make the game more enjoyable for the WoW players who aren't nerds with no life. If they scare off the ones that are nerds with no life with changes like this, then more power to Blizzard!

Seems most of you on this site have lost your minds. This post is an example of the last 19 pages of hypocrisy and idiocy that is being spewed here.

The dynamic of the MMO genre is to create a world for players who then have free reign to interact with it. There are rules in place, just like any world, but those rules are to maintain a sort of order rather than to outright restrict freedom.

The hypocrisy is astounding. For years casual players have been begging for more accessible raids, and perhaps rightfully so. The main complaint was that organizing a large group of players on a strict schedule was not conducive to everyone's schedules and lives.

Blizzard listened, and gave us 10 player versions of the same content. They let us extend raid lockouts so we weren't restricted to a weekly raid cycle - we could extend this cycle as long as we wanted to. We are given normal and hard modes of both 10 and 25 player content - considerably more options to experiencing content in WoW than ever before. Freedom was at an all time high.

But now Icecrown is going to take away much of that freedom. Guilds will be "unnaturally" blocked from content, preventing both immersion in the game but also freedom to live in the world it creates.

And this is where the hypocrisy is coming from. Casuals have wanted "freedom" to play the game how they want for years. And now that they have that, they do not care about the freedom of the hardcore in playing the game how they want. It is ok for the hard core to have their freedom to choose how much to play the game taken from them, and casuals are delighting.

Artificial restriction needs to go, freedom needs to return. You are free to do one boss a week if you prefer, but do not tell others that they cannot pull all nighters and defeat Arthas faster if they wish. How does that effect you, anyway? Pro tip : it doesn't.

The average guild will probably be hurt by this in the end. They will get through the first 4 bosses and be left with the dissatisfaction of not having a shot at the next one. They will get to PP and be full of stress for those 5 attempts, and it will probably not be a fun experience.

Perhaps if we had a stated goal or reason from Blizzard as to why these gates are being implemented, we would all have an easier time to argue our positions.

[bullseyed]

I don't see why blizzard wants to punish the players that attempt to be the best. I don't understand it at all. Sure being in the top % of players requires 4-6 hours of raiding 5-6 days a week, but still forcing a funnel effect on every single one of them is a bit ridiculous. I'm hoping that whoever made that decision gets fired when cataclysm comes.

Is it really that surprising? Look at the people getting elected politically in the US. Plus, as GC said, Blizzard supports communism.

And no, the top players do not spend 4-6 hours of raiding 5-6 days a week. Good players spend less than 4 hours raiding per week because there is no challenging content in the game, and there hasn't been (Other than Yogg 0) since M'uru.

[Offhand]

5 attempts on a boss per week? Seems reasonable. If you wipe 5 times, chances are you aren't going to get it and should go back to Naxx and practice how to raid.

Yeah we had to practice on Patchwerk a lot but it made Firefighter a 2 shot...

Are you out of your fucking mind?

[BlazerWithTheLazer]

Sooo instead of people who are retards have to learn to play the game now automaticly dumbs down and nerf the difficulty every few weeks???

wow.... brilliant Blizz, just the sort of idea I only imagine you guys could come up with.

[Brodster]

LOL @ the amount of tears this thread has.

5 attempts on a boss per week? Seems reasonable. If you wipe 5 times, chances are you aren't going to get it and should go back to Naxx and practice how to raid.

Parts being released a little at a time is also good, douche world first guilds who spend 9 hours a day raiding just to get the world first won't be able to topple Arthas in week 1.

My guild has done close to 60 attempts on Firefighter 10 man, and have downed him twice. The time spent in there was very fun and rewarding to finally get the boss down. If we had only 5 attempts per week we probably would never get it down.

I'm not sure what those "douche" world first guilds have to do with your enjoyment of the game. In fact you've probably never interacted with anyone from them.

Perhaps if Blizzard made their content more challenging to those high end guilds, we they would not be getting them down so fast. But again, I have no idea why you should care what others are doing in a game that does not effect your play in that game.

[Shiki]

My theory: Blizz probably hasn't fully finished fine-tuning the encounters post-Saurfang, and they want to get the patch out of the door asap. I'd rather have 4 encounters weeks sooner, rather than wait an extra month to get anything at all.

[Ryoflash]

Sooo instead of people who are retards have to learn to play the game now automaticly dumbs down and nerf the difficulty every few weeks???

wow.... brilliant Blizz, just the sort of idea I only imagine you guys could come up with.

...Just how is it "dumbing" difficulty down? I may be looking at it differently but hell if I see a guild down arthas and hard mode arthas the week that he unlocks I'm calling the press as that guild is either really lucky or talented. But yet...I guess since its "dumbing" things down I should expect come arthas release to see 35+ arthas hm kills?

Granted yes... after someodd weeks when the buff rises and more tries are offered I expect to start seeing the kills. I just think a first is gonna be extreme if pulled off as soon as available or early. Though does depend on how fast and much this buff scales

[Melanie]

Awesome, they took everything that ppl hated about ToC and enhanced it for ICC, way to go.

So ... killing all the normal modes in half a raid day then wait for the gates to unlock then maybe fill a whole raid night and then 2nd night for 5 atempts on heroic (when it will eventually be unlocked).

Blizzard are forcing us all to go casual mode, fun times ahead.

[aed01]

Sunwell was done exactly the way they are doing it. it deff ends up being a much better way to launch a raid. keeps people entertained longer n dont get burnt out too fast

I get a serious burn out from the lack of content, not from being forced to wait. It's just an excuse to keep content alive for a longer period of time.

[bullseyed]

Sunwell was done exactly the way they are doing it. it deff ends up being a much better way to launch a raid. keeps people entertained longer n dont get burnt out too fast

False, anddddd false.

[skulle]

This makes me really sad. I was hoping it would be like Ulduar and we could run around doing all the hard modes and whatever we want. If the game is going to be like this from now on than I don't really see a reason to play anymore if you're a "hardcore raider". Raiding one night a week atm and there is basically nothing else to do in this game except roll an alt and gear it out. I'm glad that COD2 modern warfare came out and L4D2, I guess I'll be amazing at another game

If any wow GM's are reading this than please make it like Ulduar so we can just go through the instance and have fun, we don't need this limitation thing. Make it so we have to kill those 3 "harder bosses" sindragosa, professor p, Valithria Dreamwalker, before doing Arthas on heroic. Hell, make it a cock block and insanely hard to get through, I don't care, just please don't make us wait weeks to do stuff in this game when a lot of us just wanna kill Arthas and leave wow.

[slimj091]

And at the same time Blizzard are conning you out of your pocket money and artificially make you play more months than maybe you would of wanted to.

They give the cake, they take your pocket money.

I think the only people who will continue to play WoW are the pure addicts who could not stop playing even if they had 5 blonde babes flashing their boobies in front of them.

they aren't conning me out of anything. if they were conning me they would be taking my money for an imaginary game that doesn't exist. and honestly i'm not going to be raiding ICC anyways, but i'm still going to be playing because...suprise I like the game. if you feel that blizzard is conning you out of your "pocket change" then perhaps you should just stop playing. but i have a feeling you already quit months if not years ago, and are hanging out on WoW fansite forums trying to convince people to quit playing because you have a jerry maguire complex.

[bbr]

I guess it helps prevent people wiping endlessly trying to get something from the instance... might prevent overcrowding it, slightly... but.. still.

Seems a lame way to prevent progress. Not to mention it being lame to only release a wing per week.. o_O

[execc]

"There will be no explicit rewards for defeating the Lich King with a specific number of attempts remaining as there was with Trial of the Grand Crusader. There will also not be an achievement to complete Icecrown Citadel without being defeated by a boss encounter, or letting a raid member die. (i.e. A Tribute to Insanity)."

so, the whole point of the limitations is just to... limit? so people don't trample through heroic content in 1 week?

not very conforting =(

This is a change they should've done from the get-go. Limiting the number of attempts is a good wipe-recovery mechanic. This will actually make the game more fun (I think).

Here's what I'm talking about:
When sunwell came out, guilds literally spent DAYS and NIGHTS non-stop trying to kill the bosses. This is a good way to get burnt out and stop playing. Now, blizzard doesn't want you to stop playing, do they? Spending long periods of time wiping generally gets tiring and finally when a boss is killed, the excitement isn't as great cause you are effing tired of the GL screaming at you / wiping / making mistakes / you just want to get it over with and go to sleep, whether you kill the damn boss or not.

10 points for blizz for doing this.