Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

[Tavek]

I'm okay with the gate system.

But the limited try thing just bugs me. If I want to wipe endlessly then let me.

[Deleted]

This system cockblocks every single raider into one category only:

- The "Hardcores" will kill the bosses within the limited attempts and will be stuck until new content/hardmodes are opened.
- The "Casuals" will be forced to cut their friends for the logic of progress, because of DCs, perfect raid comp, new player, etc. After the obbligatory guild drama that will happen, if the guild still exists, it will move a "Hardcore" situation.

Honestly, I'm trying to see where is the good on all this.

[Tungland]

This makes me a sad panda : (

[Khevis]

*boggle* And yet I don't remember this much bitching back when Sunwell was gated. (And don't give me the bull that "Sunwell was harder to get through" so most people weren't hitting the locks anyway.)

Honestly? It's a story-based progression that makes sense - The Crusade/Ebon Blade do not have an unlimited resource. We should not be able to spend all day in one shot clearing it out and walking away the winners on release. If you're wiping all over the place, while other forces are trying to hold out (and probably being beaten to hell while you're slogging along) yeah, they're gonna have to stop progress as much as you do. We're assaulting the last major holding of the Lich King. It's not something you get to charge into, and run all the way through in one shot.

To paraphrase a certain individual from Hellfire (Alliance):

"You're going to have to claw, kick, bite, and fight for every last scrap of land, or all is lost."

If you think that breaking into IC should be a one-shot cakewalk, and that even the combined forces (which aren't all going to be there, ALL their forces simply can't when there's always a threat somewhere else to be watched/contained and bases to hold) can simply bust in and swamp the place (especially under the theory of every soldier's death = new enemy) ... then yeah, I'm gonna say you're delusional.

We're completely ignoring the QQ of "I finished Icecrown Citadel in one day". Sorry, you're not gods, you don't get to roflstomp the Lich King that fast. I doubt he'd have so little forces that we'd be able to do that. (Short of a real multi-raid-raid of all players, but that's not what the story supports. :P ...)

Also, this just means more people need to bring their A-game every time they raid, unless they want to lose out on something. So for actual progression raids, it means they need to not slack off and pretend it's easy mode. Do your best, and you won't HAVE an issue with the attempt system.

As for gating, as I said - it shouldn't be fully unlocked right off, as we're assaulting the damn place. We have to break through defenses and thin the crowds (and prevent any losses from being used against us). I think it's been stressed in game enough times that the Lick King uses what we lose against us - allowing multiple all hours repeated head-bashings would only serve to make life even harder getting through by giving them more to throw at us.

Frankly, I'd rather pull back for awhile, recover, and rebuild strength and then push on.

You don't throw 50 morons at a powerful Necromancer and expect it to work - all you've done is made 50 more enemies you need to kill. If evne your 'best' is struggling - wait it out, and try again. Don't keep taking loses and givng your opponent more til you're outnumbered worse.

Peopel QQ about gating, people would QQ about people running through in no time. No win, I tell ya.

[Cookiecutter]

Funny, if they didn't add something like this you'd be complaining about Ensidia killing the Lich King 4 days after 3.3.
Hipocrites. Or rather, whiners with endless supplies of QQ, no matter what Blizzard does.

Gates, limited attempts.. this is the new way of making content last longer without going to plain retarded difficulties (lol pre-nerf Sunwell)

[Deleted]

Hey!stop QQing allready!You said that Wotlk is easy(which is) and wanted something really hard.Well THERE you go! >

Cockblock system != hard content.

Not that I complained about the Ulduar/TotC system, which was good, just needed some tuning up. NOT this cockblocking crap.

[Canopus]

I am actually glad that Blizzard is doing this. The "super" guilds of the world won't be able to fully complete Icecrown Citadel in 3 or 4 days. They'll have to wait, like the rest of us. The balance has been restored. Thank you, Blizzard. ;D

[lufen]

*boggle* And yet I don't remember this much bitching back when Sunwell was gated. (And don't give me the bull that "Sunwell was harder to get through" so most people weren't hitting the locks anyway.)

Honestly? It's a story-based progression that makes sense - The Crusade/Ebon Blade do not have an unlimited resource. We should not be able to spend all day in one shot clearing it out and walking away the winners on release. If you're wiping all over the place, while other forces are trying to hold out (and probably being beaten to hell while you're slogging along) yeah, they're gonna have to stop progress as much as you do. We're assaulting the last major holding of the Lich King. It's not something you get to charge into, and run all the way through in one shot.

To paraphrase a certain individual from Hellfire (Alliance):

"You're going to have to claw, kick, bite, and fight for every last scrap of land, or all is lost."

If you think that breaking into IC should be a one-shot cakewalk, and that even the combined forces (which aren't all going to be there, ALL their forces simply can't when there's always a threat somewhere else to be watched/contained and bases to hold) can simply bust in and swamp the place (especially under the theory of every soldier's death = new enemy) ... then yeah, I'm gonna say you're delusional.

We're completely ignoring the QQ of "I finished Icecrown Citadel in one day". Sorry, you're not gods, you don't get to roflstomp the Lich King that fast. I doubt he'd have so little forces that we'd be able to do that. (Short of a real multi-raid-raid of all players, but that's not what the story supports. :P ...)

Also, this just means more people need to bring their A-game every time they raid, unless they want to lose out on something. So for actual progression raids, it means they need to not slack off and pretend it's easy mode. Do your best, and you won't HAVE an issue with the attempt system.

As for gating, as I said - it shouldn't be fully unlocked right off, as we're assaulting the damn place. We have to break through defenses and thin the crowds (and prevent any losses from being used against us). I think it's been stressed in game enough times that the Lick King uses what we lose against us - allowing multiple all hours repeated head-bashings would only serve to make life even harder getting through by giving them more to throw at us.

Frankly, I'd rather pull back for awhile, recover, and rebuild strength and then push on.

You don't throw 50 morons at a powerful Necromancer and expect it to work - all you've done is made 50 more enemies you need to kill. If evne your 'best' is struggling - wait it out, and try again. Don't keep taking loses and givng your opponent more til you're outnumbered worse.

Peopel QQ about gating, people would QQ about people running through in no time. No win, I tell ya.

Quoting your entire post so people will have +1 chance to read something that makes sense. Seriously, you're right, there's no win... Frakkin' QQ everywhere.

[Abnell]

What's wrong with you people? You're willing to accept a shit system and have less fun only because "super" guilds won't beat the instance quickly? What impact do they have on you anyway?

[Dazzy]

Over the last year:

Hardcore raiders (2% of wow pop.) : Play 80 hours a week learning the ins and outs of every encounter on ptr. Patch goes live, 30 minutes later "omg it's too ezmode, I'm bored...)

Pretend hardcore raiders (90ish % of wow forums pop) : clear toc25 after a couple months then complain on forums wow is too ezmode, I'm bored (while not even close to togc25 completion).

Blizz "Let's put in a couple ways to extend content a little so the majority of wow pop doesn't complain about nothing to do"

Majority of wow pop : "OMG I have only 5 tries? we get constant lag and DC'S!, 4 bosses every two weeks wtf!?" (which btw I don't buy, every single 25man since wrath hit I remember 2 dc's total, where are you people getting these horrible connections, and why do raids continue to bring you?"
"So we raid 1 night a week and then what for the other 6 nights??!??!?"

Go outside, get a job, read a book, play farmville, whatever. Seriously, nobody gives a shit.


Make up your minds....THOUSANDS of posts of the former, and this thread will be thousands of posts with the latter in a matter of days.

[bigfoot1291]

I am actually glad that Blizzard is doing this. The "super" guilds of the world won't be able to fully complete Icecrown Citadel in 3 or 4 days. They'll have to wait, like the rest of us. The balance has been restored. Thank you, Blizzard. ;D

Why should they "have to wait"? They are extremely good, and spend A LOT of fucking time getting to the status they are at.

[Idras]

Coming soon:

[Thadious]

OK, firstly qq at all the retards posting here....

Secondly ithink blizz have done this for a few reasons tbh, Firstly it means the worlds elite wont clear in 1 or days and then sit twiddling thumbs for a year while waiting for cata, secondly it promotes more competition between sed guilds as they will have to wait for the end of raid and try and complete it almost at the same time as others, with the limited tries it means every single things counts real hard... :P and thirdly it will give all the other non-im-one-of-the-100-best-players-in-the-world players a chance to really enjoy content as well as having the satisfaction of prob doing as well as the other top top players which ofc keeps them happy. As for the comments regarding hardmodes, ie,

so we will have to wait not only til patch launch but an additional 1-2 MONTHS before seeing lich king even on normal mode? that's just ridiculous, how are any non-hardcore guilds ever even going to get far enough to experience his hardmode?

.............

well tbh the hardmodes are designed more for the hardcore players regardless so good job on the crayon eating mate

I say fair play blizzard, seems like a good systm and please dont back down over a few retards crying over something they fail to really understand....

[Malevolence]

What's wrong with you people? You're willing to accept a shit system and have less fun only because "super" guilds won't beat the instance quickly? What impact do they have on you anyway?

Thank you, someone using their brain posts. Exactly, what fucking deal does it make to you if someone clears it faster than you because you can't?

This has nothing to do with casuals. It has everything to do with slowing progression.

[bigfoot1291]

Thank you, someone using their brain posts. Exactly, what fucking deal does it make to you if someone clears it faster than you because you can't?

This has nothing to do with casuals. It has everything to do with slowing progression.

Apparently, people have a hard time accepting that there ARE people out there better than them and that they can clear raids much quicker than them and their friends.
That's all it is. There is no possible way that the best guilds could have any other impact other than that.

[Jundas]

This is what I fear:

"...Uh oh, main tank dc'd. There goes our last attempt. Better luck next week guys."

What i wish

"..Uh oh, Sindragosa (or any boss) is actually REALLY hard, we're gonna have to work on this alot."

I really do hope ICC is difficult, but i don't think limits are practical. RNG is going to play a horrifyingly large factor with these small attempt numbers and it makes me a sad panda. WTB bosses that allow you to work on them and learn from them. You can't do this with 5-15 attempts limiting you =/

[Deleted]

Apparently, people have a hard time accepting that there ARE people out there better than them and that they can clear raids much quicker than them and their friends.
That's all it is. There is no possible way that the best guilds could have any other impact other than that.

I agree with this post and I'm an average casual player (killed the ToGC Beasts and that's all). This system hurts every raider, not just the "hardcores" or "casuals".

[Smikis]

i was thinking of coming back to wow for icc, but this is sure winer when it comes to decided.. it leaves you with one option.. dont come back.. im starting to loose faith in blizzard and wow,
whoever thinks this is to make it harder is complete fool, 4 bosses per weeks or months.. i imagine.. its gonna be atleast 3 months till last bosses opens,
then you got 5 attempts for last 4 bosses in heroic.. ye.. after weeks and months it will be 10 then 15.. wow..

its not 5 per boss , how bad at reading you must be to figure it that way..

this is nothing but prolong.. silly way to make 3 months instance to last for at least 6 months.. pathetic..

they been loosing custtomers left and right and they know it.. i been fanboy and been defending blizzard and wotlk .. but this is just plain slap in the face.. wotlk launched with 2 bosses for pve.. wow . then 12 more. ok one decent patch.. then another 5.. extended for god damn month to even unlock them..

now they make this even longer , there were times when we were getting raid zone every 3-4 months.. with as much content as ulduar had..

[Gestalt]

People keep talking about "progression" as if it still existed. Seriously? Wrath progression?

For those who remember (and those who don't), "progression" was a term applied to raiding when progress through a given raid instance was a matter of weeks or months, not hours and amphetamines. "Progression" involved building faction to be PERMITTED to see the later bosses and farming all necessary gear from the bosses you could down in order to make killing the later ones possible.

If you're going to be directly impacted by the release delays then be THANKFUL that Blizz is giving you a longer period of time in ICC before you're groaning and grumbling through a boss fight. Hell, this is one of the reasons I'm avoiding the PTR's: content burnout has been a persistent problem in Wrath raiding.

Last, it's been said, bears repeating: This is Arthas, the most lore-rich boss we've yet had the opportunity to face. Seriously, would anyone NOT be a little let down if he dropped within 48 hours of the patch? World-first Shadowmourne within 72?

[psyched]

All I can see here is :

MiLKING!

Blizz is Milking it as long as they can and then some more. That's it. WoTLK is just 1 big fat cow and they just have to keep milking it...