An idea for a new escape mechanic

[scandore8472]

Well, not really a way to "escape" melee, but more of a deterrent. I've been thinking about a way to make hellfire better, and I came up with an interesting idea. Completely change the way the spell works, add a 3 or so minute cooldown, and have it apply a 15 second buff to the warlock.

I'm thinking something like, the warlock becomes engulfed in flames for 15 seconds. Each time the warlock takes physical damage, 20% is reflected back to the attacker as fire damage over 5 seconds, stacks 5 times. If the warlock dies while under the effect of hellfire, the warlock will explode causing all enemies within 10 yards to become pacified for 5 seconds.

The idea behind this is to get melee to stop attacking you. You get a slight damage reduction, they receive a good deal damage and if they do kill you, they are unable to attack for 5 seconds. It's not ridiculously OP, because the reflected damage wouldn't be much at all. Melee hits for ~5k damage, 20% returned would only be 1k damage over 5 seconds. 5 stacks of that would only be 5k damage over 5 seconds, which is isn't that bad and can be completely avoided by not attacking.

[Galith]

Warlocks have escape mechanics and the ones they have are very powerful already.

[zukai]

intriguing for sure, a little op- if it works while stunned, then i think it more op, but if it doesnt then all they have to do is stun you

maybe when u die, the explosion just does damage, and getting stunned applies a debuff that causes them to stop attacking for a few seconds

[scandore8472]

Warlocks have escape mechanics and the ones they have are very powerful already.

Yes we do, and no they aren't. If you compare a warlocks escape mechanics to any other cloth caster, you will realize that warlocks are extremely weak. Mages get ice block, which is only able to be dispelled by mass dispel, SPs get dispersion which can not be dispelled, disc priests get pain suppression, which increases dispel resistance by 65%. Warlocks get a shield, which can be easily dispelled, and it requires us to have our VW out, which isn't really desirable.

Teleport is OK, but it can't be cast while stunned. More often then not, by the time I trinket out of a stun, and try to teleport, I've been stunned again, leaving me to die a miserable stun-locked death.

[Halicia]

Yes we do, and no they aren't. If you compare a warlocks escape mechanics to any other cloth caster, you will realize that warlocks are extremely weak.... SPs get dispersion which can not be dispelled,

Warlocks are... weaker then SPs ?

[Moddycss]

sorry to say but the ability is OP. as i do up to 10k crits on cloths. i will be able to kill myself. here's what happends when i fight warlocks.

i charge. i hit twice. i get feared. i pop out with 3 dots on me. i intercept. i hit warlock twice. i get feared and die.

if i dont get 4 lucky crits i lose. if i do i win. but it requieres 4 lucky crits. besides that. if you have that flame thing on while. i will die after the first fear before i can get my stun on ya the second time

[Mr.DPS]

playing as a rogue, I gotta say that wouldnt make melee very happy. my 2 80s and my main alt are all melee and if I get a DoT for another 5k in addtion to the 3-4 dots I always have on me anyways its just adding insult to injury, now I can see where you are coming from but locks have enough escapes as is and this is just on the OP side. wouldnt it make you made if say CoS reflected 20% more damage to you while a rogue had it up for those 3 secs or whatever?

[scandore8472]

sorry to say but the ability is OP. as i do up to 10k crits on cloths. i will be able to kill myself. here's what happends when i fight warlocks.

i charge. i hit twice. i get feared. i pop out with 3 dots on me. i intercept. i hit warlock twice. i get feared and die.

if i dont get 4 lucky crits i lose. if i do i win. but it requieres 4 lucky crits. besides that. if you have that flame thing on while. i will die after the first fear before i can get my stun on ya the second time

That's the point, to get melee to back off. I think it would be fine to even add a damage reduction effect to the warlock (reduce damage done by the warlock by 50%) so a warlock can't pop it and then nuke down the melee. There really would be no difference between this, and say ice block. Ice block makes the mage immune to all damage, forcing the attackers to change target. This effect just would return damage, effectively accomplishing the same thing. The return damage is completely avoidable if the attacker just stops attacking the warlock.

BTW you are immune to fear for 15 seconds out of every 30 seconds. Warriors are probably one of the hardest classes for warlocks to handle. If you are getting owned by warlocks, you're probably doing something very wrong. Oh ya, and I've conflaged myself to death with spell reflect many, many times.

playing as a rogue, I gotta say that wouldnt make melee very happy. my 2 80s and my main alt are all melee and if I get a DoT for another 5k in addtion to the 3-4 dots I always have on me anyways its just adding insult to injury, now I can see where you are coming from but locks have enough escapes as is and this is just on the OP side. wouldnt it make you made if say CoS reflected 20% more damage to you while a rogue had it up for those 3 secs or whatever?

I can understand, but as a rogue, you can easily stun lock a warlock to death. On top of that, CoS removes all dots, and makes you virtually immune to all magic, letting you vanish, then stunlock again.

I agree that my original example is probably a tad OP, but that wasn't the point of this thread. It was more of a jumping off point to get people to discuss and improve on the idea.

[scandore8472]

Warlocks are... weaker then SPs ?

When did I say that? Warlocks are most certainly not weaker then mages, and ice block is way better then dispersion.

[Deleted]

The fact that you don't know how to use teleport does not mean warlocks need more defense mechanics.Teleport,if you take into account its measly 30 sec cooldown,is the most powerful escape ability in arenas.The opponents will usually have to respond with MUCH longer cooldowns to be able to keep their game up with yours(with the sole exception of a warrior,which yes,hardcounters you in 2v2,but your teammates should help in 3v3).

[Artur994]

As you well know, destro locks are retardedly OP if given the chance to free cast. Affliction locks dot you up and fear spam. Now, this ability would be OP imho if they were allowed to cast spells while under its affect. If, however, you were incapable of casting/dealing damage then it would be fine tbh.

[Kanes]

Only thing I could see us needing/wanting would be for teleport to be castable while stunned, not removing it or anything, but even this could cause serious issues balance wise.

My OP idea would be to take spell lock and devour magic away from the fel hunter and just make them spells the lock casts... But I think that'd be a bit much... Can dream tho.

[HavocLock]

A warrior complaining about a melee-reflect ability? A rogue comparing it to un-cc'able ability that is an i win button against most casters? While I agree that its a bit OP as described and not the direction I would prefer, both argumements are... humorous.

[gherkin]

Players don't get "on-death" abilities that powerful, if at all. Also, 20% is ridiculously high. There would be no reason to attack the warlock whatsoever. Deterrent yes, but deterrents soon become Just-Don't-Do-It's. 5% maybe.

[bw13187]

Teleport is OK, but it can't be cast while stunned. More often then not, by the time I trinket out of a stun, and try to teleport, I've been stunned again, leaving me to die a miserable stun-locked death.

Sounds like you need to pay attention to what classes you are fighting and start budgeting your trinket more effectively.

Locks are in a good place. You can chain your short-duration CCs in between your high-damage nukes and kill someone without recompense. These can all also be used as survivability tools. It's a l2p issue, not a "please give me a move that makes rogues instakill themselves" issue.

[shakeme]

sorry to say but the ability is OP. as i do up to 10k crits on cloths. i will be able to kill myself. here's what happends when i fight warlocks.

i charge. i hit twice. i get feared. i pop out with 3 dots on me. i intercept. i hit warlock twice. i get feared and die.

if i dont get 4 lucky crits i lose. if i do i win. but it requieres 4 lucky crits. besides that. if you have that flame thing on while. i will die after the first fear before i can get my stun on ya the second time

Again tho, no one cares about your 1:1 duels outside ironforge. When we talk pvp, we talk group pvp, arenas, world, battleground.

Warlock teleport is a special type of terrible for bg and world, but can have its place in arena. With the warlocks current state in arena, it wouldn't be a terrible addition, but I'd want it not used by destro, if you are going to be that offensive, you can't have a bunch of super awesome defensive moves.

[BartolGdH]

Only thing I could see us needing/wanting would be for teleport to be castable while stunned, not removing it or anything, but even this could cause serious issues balance wise.

I'm not PvPing much myself, but why not?
Compare that to (I know, it's getting kind of old) mages who can blink every 15 seconds instead of 30,in different spots, not to the same, shiny little circle as before, AND they remove the stun effect by blinking, which in your example wouldn't happen. So I think doing that wouldn't be too much of an issue.

Deterrent yes, but deterrents soon become Just-Don't-Do-It's. 5% maybe.

That sounds quite reasonable.


But maybe one could change hellfire into something like:

Hellfire (Rank 5):
The caster becomes a living flame, causing 451 Fire damage to himself or herself and 451 Fire damage to all nearby enemies every 1 sec. Physical damage dealt to the caster during casting Hellfire causes them to suffer 451 Fire damage every 2 seconds. This effect lasts 6 seconds, cannot be resisted and stacks up to two times. 2 Minutes cooldown. 64% of base mana, channeled.

Any opinions (why am I always writing onions first? ... ) ?


Btw: only one of the two things should be implemented, if at all.

[HavocLock]

... but I'd want it not used by destro, if you are going to be that offensive, you can't have a bunch of super awesome defensive moves.

Yes, lets leave that to the mages, rogues, and dks.

[scandore8472]

Players don't get "on-death" abilities that powerful, if at all. Also, 20% is ridiculously high. There would be no reason to attack the warlock whatsoever. Deterrent yes, but deterrents soon become Just-Don't-Do-It's. 5% maybe.

Like I said before, remove the on death ability. The whole idea was to produce an immune effect without reusing the bland immune mechanic....again.