3.3 BiS gear [Enh]

[bluehippo]

FFS mate are you TOTALLY clueless its NOT a ArP trinket. The PROC is its main feature. The ArP is just flavor text really. If your guild rules are such that they can't see this would be a decent trinket for Enhance then you need new guild rules or a new guild. The way you are reacting is like the idiots that look at an item and first of all compare the ARMOUR on it as if that makes a blind bit of difference.

Time will tell the value of the proc of course but stop focusing on the ArP as the first thing you see and see the proc, 600 of a stat boost for THIRTY seconds is going to be good. Only the proc rate might dim it down a bit.

Yeah i get that... Im gonna shut up before you ban me.

[Applesaus]

I'm just so tired of Blizz regulating us to Fist Weapons.

That's why I rolled an Orc! Was SO happy when they added fist weapons to the racial lol. As I said earlier in this thread, the heroic 1h axe is not unique so if it is BiS we can dual wield it (assuming we don't need an OH with hit or exp on it).

[Applesaus]

Remember that the estimate is that less than half the loot is known at this stage.

I'd rather not sticky this thread as we are in danger of having the whole front page of stickies the way things are going

You could swap this thread with the 2h and enhancement tanking thread :P lol

I'm reading some suggestions that it may be a "smart trinket" not necessarily along the lines of greatness or paragon, but in a sense that it could have set priorities for the proc based on your class/spec. Its a stretch but I could see it in a sense, horribly unlikely though. That way lets say for Enh Shammies the priority procs are Agi, Crit, Haste or the AP that way we don't get a crap proc of +600 Strength or ArP...

that's just me being hopeful though lol. technically however, if its just a flat proc rate then we benefit from 4/6 possible buffs...so good chances that whatever procs will be good...

[Drifted]

Until properties of that random proc trinket is figured out, for example I highly doubt internal CD will be 45sec when buff itself lasts 30sec, I will stick with more orthodoxic choice http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50342/w...-fanged-skull/.

When comparing growth of caster DPS and tank trinket to melee trinket (hc one is not yet discovered) you get values of 152 passive crit and around 1220 AP proc. These are of course estimates.

Also can't see people's fixation to Victor's Call. You get 3 less expertise if you use 4 sockets to gem for it. This is comes with sacrifice of 160 AP from AP sockets if you are socketing pure AP gems. When you transform that expertise to AP (160 AP) and sum the average AP from proc (208 AP if I presume you get instantly 5 stacks which of course doesn't happen) you get average AP of 368. Fury of the Five Flights alone gives over 300 AP of average. There are so much better trinkets out there than crappy expertise one.

So much modifying. Deathbringer's Will, if presumed 33% uptime (which is same as Greatness and Death's Verdict/Choice), I get personal AEP value of 600 when I'm counting ONLY ArP proc. Interestingly haste, crit and AP all got only around 30 more AEP than ArP. Agility falls between ArP and rest. Str is obviously the worst possible but I hope they have made str and agi at least follow Paragon rule and checking higher stat. For the sake of comparing Comet's Trail is 546 AEP for me. Also better note in the end that those are rather old values I dug up from output file of my sim.

[Omanley]

the order i have those items listed at is

best
v
v
worst

so if you want to look at the best possible item setup, take those at the top

i have left leather out of the equasion, which however doesn´t necessarily mean there isn´t anything good among those parts as well. i also have strictly kept this list to 264 ilvl only. there might be some 5man items ( such as trinkets ) which are actually viable enough to be considered.

i personally think it´s a good thing we have to socket for expertise, as we are more free in choosing gear through that. i also applause for the socket colours. only two blue sockets means we are able to get all socket bonuses.

and aside from the trinket and the axe, we are completely free from Arp, unlike know, where our BiS setup contains 5 Arp items.

do not also forget that the list is yet to be completed, there might be some more trinkets/weapons to be found. I personally have especially high hopes for a haste/crit axe, as it would be a waste to have only tanking/fast/arp versions of it.

[bitrix]

I dunno im not a fan of armor pen as enh.

Edit and i really dont think a guild would give a enh shaman a armor pen trinket over say a warrior rogue hunter etc.

It is true that the value of arp is not anywhere near the value of haste, hit, ap, crit etc. its vitually at the bottom of the totem pole for mele stats BUT it is not completely worthless. True it only affects our white damage and SS attacks, but with the massive ammount of haste stacking going on our white damage %'s are going up markably. Thus the more and more haste were piling on the less and less terrible ArP is. By no means is it EVER going to become better than our other mele stats, but the fact is the proc from the trinket is pretty amazing and should not be counted out simply because it has a "less" desirable stat. In all likelyness i would pobably pass the trinket to a warrior rogue or hunter initially, but simply because it is better for them NOT becuase its not good for us.

[Omanley]

numbers do ofc vary but simply think of the arp bonus of the trinket like this:

let us assume arp has a ep value of ~1.2 for you
let us assume further crit has a value of ~1.8

155*1.2 = 186
84*1.8 = 151.2

while arp isn´t as good as crit, if you have shitloads more of arp than crit, it will start to be better

( what would you rather have, 300 attackpower or 3000 strenght? : )

[Applesaus]

I felt it was time this thread got bumped back to the top!

Curious thought...with the 2 choices for totems, you've put the haste over the AP totem. Does everyone think the 220 haste is gonna be better than the 430 AP totem? Or is this just one of those things that depends on your preference/play style/ gear setup?

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50458/b...shattered-ice/
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50463/t...the-avalanche/

[Omanley]

flame shock is applayable at range, so at the begin of any encounter where you have to walk to your target you will be able to apply your shock before anything else.

the haste totem stacks 5 times. that´s 2 more stacks than the ap one. however, flameshock ticks every 3 seconds. so from the moment it ticks the first time, the haste totem takes 12 seconds to stack full. the ap totem first requiers you to reach your target, and after your first stormstrike it will take 16 seconds to stack it to max. another note is that haste is ( at least at the moment ) a little better than haste when it comes to single target ( boss ) damage. in aoe situations ap massively pulls ahead. lastly, the haste totems buff lasts twice as long, so in fights where you have to move you may possibly lose those stacks at some point. Oh, and you have to use flameshock only one time to have it stack to full on it´s own.

in short:
haste attackpower

time required for stacking:
12sec 16sec ( +~2 sec until reaching enemy )

boss dmg
better not as good

duration
30 sec 15 sec

ability uses required for it stacking to max
1 3


the only reason to take ap in my mind is that it´s better for ae nuking

note that the haste one is made for elemental, hence it´s good for them as well and also pretty good for resto as well, so you get one totem for all specs, interessting for dual spec raiders.

[Deleted]

True but the ramp up time pales into insignificance if the actual dps provided by the trinket once you've reached max stacks is more.

We are talking about say 20-30 seconds ramp up time in a 7 minute fight. Now if AP proves better than haste for those fights the then over all dps will significantly outweigh the difference in ramp up times. Time will tell - these totems are now available in the new sim so go test

[Omanley]

We are talking about say 20-30 seconds ramp up time in a 7 minute fight. Now if AP proves better than haste for those fights the then over all dps will significantly outweigh the difference in ramp up times.

true that. my main point would be that you are in danger of losing those stacks.

let´s say you use stormstrike, after 6 seconds mob dissapears for some reason ( syndragos taking of or something ), so you have 9 seconds of reapplieing.

in term of haste totem, flameshock would tick further, renwing your stacks and they would last additional 30 seconds after the dot having expired.

but your right, time will tell

anyway, as t10 is extremely awesome we will get the set parts first anyway, and the relics aren´t thaaat much stronger than the current ones.

[Applesaus]

This was sort of my thought as well, but I usually prefer flat AP over haste. Like Levva said the question is whether the AP at full is better than the haste or not.

true that. my main point would be that you are in danger of losing those stacks.

The problem I have with this is that although you may still have your haste buff constantly on you, if you're relying on the FS to keep it up because of movement then all you have is a buff, regardless of whether or not you're ab;e to utilize it when you stop moving to fight. Does that make sense?

[Omanley]

The problem I have with this is that although you may still have your haste buff constantly on you, if you're relying on the FS to keep it up because of movement then all you have is a buff, regardless of whether or not you're ab;e to utilize it when you stop moving to fight. Does that make sense?

what im trying to get at is that as soon as you lose the stacks, you will have to bring them up again.

with the haste buff you could go full blast the moment you are able to do damage again. with the ap one you might have to stack it up 3-4 times in the fight. while over a 7 minute fight where you do not move much/at all, the stacking time becomes uninteressting, in a fight where you have to stack it up several times it might start becoming an issue.

[Noobley]

Im not sure if anyone posted this, but for an orc w/ axes/fist and the cloak/ring w/ exp you should be at the cap, no need to gem. And for the haste totem, with the addition of fire nova AP might edge out haste due to the AP>SP conversion.

to the OP if they wanna edit their BiS http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=50764 is the cloak w/ exp on it, its 10 man but ull be able to get the H version for higher iLvL. That is the alliance version i believe, cant find the horde one yet on wowhead's ptr database

[Omanley]

updated the wowhead-ptr-links to ingame links

bump

[Deleted]

This thread has got a bit derailed into a "where is the expertise" thread and "how crap is Victor's Call". I've asked Omanley to repost a clean thread now 3.3 is live when he's done that I'll lock this one and sticky the new one.

Omanley can you post the thread then add a second post "for future expansion" so you have edit rights to the top two posts in the thread. I could see that you might want a BiS single target set in the first post and a AoE set in the second perhaps, or some other such combo.

[Omanley]

done in a sec ^^

[psyched]

Nice and usefull post.

You might want to add these:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50387#reward-from : Rep ring, honored version( better ones not avaiable yet)
Will probably turn out our best ring or at least like top 3.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50387#reward- weapon from From Festergut - 10 man

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50342- Trinket from Lady Deathwhisper 10 man

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50852 - Neck From Festergut 10 man

Keep up the good work.