Tier 9 mutilate build, dps and rotation concerns.

[Novarx]

After a successful night of raiding. I was able to acquire 3 245 ilvl pieces of the tier, and 1 232 piece just to finish off for the 4 set bonus. Now with the set bonuses being so drastically different from tier 8, rupture now when it ticks has a chance of reducing your next ability by 40 energy, and increasing critical strike chance of mutilate, backstab, SS and hemo by 5%. Now while these are nice bonuses. I noticed quite a change in dps from tier8 without the energy gain from 2 set , and crit strike from rupture from 4 set. Now, what i want to ask is, is there a certain rotation i should be following at all, dropping rupture and spamming envenom per say, without overlapping enevenom buff, or something different. Or do i just hold out for axes and go combat. Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Here is my armory link, http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Hyjal&n=Novarx.
Don't mind the enchants or missing sockets, took care of those this morning when i logged on.

[Novarx]

bump

[rillehpilleh]

I could not check your armory becouse the site was bugged or smth. Anyways ill try to answer your questions!

My rogue got 3900ap, 42% critt and 435 hit. And i have given up rupture completely.

And if you got similar gear you can do that aswell.

What you want to do is trying to keep your Envenom Buff up as much as you can. so if you are lucky with ruthlessness procs you sometimes dont wanna put off that 4 point envenom instantly if you already got the envenom buff.

What you should the then if you have <80 energy is to pool until the envenom buff is about to dropp.

Im not sure if you want to clip the last 0,1->0,8 seconds of the envenom buff or not, but however you want to do it its gonna be a great dps increase!

[Novarx]

thanks for the info

[Javanface]

Stay mutilate, the poison changes are immense buffs to it in 3.3.

That said, dropping rupture from the rotation might be worth it, or it might not be. Only a spreadsheet could confidently tell you what the case is. With an envenom only rotation (and with every other rotation) not capping energy is the most important thing as it will lose you more dps than clipping envenom buffs.

I sometimes find myself with a good string of relentless strikes procs together with ruthlessness procs that eventually have me nearly energy capped with 4 points and 2-3 seconds left on the envenom buff. At that point I usually throw in a rupture anyway so I can mutilate and envenom again without losing much (if any) uptime on the envenom buff. Playing ruptureless mutilate successfully is really about making such decisions on the fly tbh. I love it

[Novarx]

Java i see what your saying with on the fly decisions. The envenom only rotation, in the end basically comes down to RNG and ruthlesness procs, while throwing in that once in a blue moon rupture. I personally haven't tried the rotation enough myself, but from what I have been doing I am beginning to get accustomed to the rotation, and I'm really starting to like it.

[Shenshu]

You also have to take in consideration whether anyone else in the raid provides a bleed debuff, that is assuming HfB is still important. I run with a 10 man that the only bleed we have is from the rogue. No warriors, no feral druids. But I guess it's one of those things were you rupture once per minute just so you can keep HfB up.

On my rogue, I open with garrote, HfB, SnD, Rupture, Envenom, then repeat Rupture and Envenom while keeping HfB up. I haven't messed with a dummy yet to just try envenom spam, but I may do that tonight just for giggles. I currently only have the 2pc T9 bonus, but it's really hard to judge how much I get the reduced cost proc. It's not one of those things that is just obvious to me very often. I don't know if it's a 1 PPM type thing or what, since you technically will only get up about 3 rupture cycles per minute, and I sure as hell don't notice it proc'ing every rupture cycle.

My rogue friend who is pretty versed says he will probably end up dropping rupture from his rotation when 3.3 hits.

[Javanface]

Shensu, what your rogue friend says is probably correct seeing as we have no set bonuses affecting rupture any more and the poison changes making the envenom buff even more potent considering the 15% extra chance to proc deadly is now an extra 15% to proc IP once the 5stack is up.

As for the 2-set t9 bonus, it has a terrible proc rate, iirc around 2%. So with rupture ticking every 3 seconds you'll see a proc once every 2.5 minutes on average. Even then you might be in the middle of a good streak of relentless/ruthlessness procs and close to capping on energy when it procs, causing you to cap energy so it's usefulness can really be debated depending on your playstyle.

[Speedycat]

I find myself not using rupture sometimes. Usually just for the initial bleed and then after if I have to. But it all depends on how much ruthlessness is proccing. If I can keep envenoming without clipping then i'll do that otherwise i'll put rupture back into the rotation. I find myself dropping rupture on those onyxia adds. I'm not sure if ruthlessness procs more on beasts because of the murder talent or if it's something else.

I also find its much better to keep up rupture in fights where you are moving around frequently and can't stand in one spot and dps. But that just seems obvious