3.3 Poison Changes FAQ

[Javanface]

Is the EP value of expertise really high enough for it to be worth gemming over attack power if the gear you have give very little expertise? My expertise is extremely low and I would need to use ten red sockets to get anywhere close to capped for mutilate spec. For optimal dps should I pursue this route or simply gem AP and pick up quick recovery to compensate?

The only easy answer is to put it through a spreadsheet.
However, depending on your playstyle, QR will not make up for the most important aspect of your finishers which is CttC refreshing SnD. Every so often you are likely to drop SnD after a dodged envenom when below the cap and this is the most costly ability to get back up. You should really try to pick up a couple of pieces with expertise on them as cycle stability is important to your dps in the long run.

[Whackojacko]

with 20 seconds of slice and dice each time and finishing only with envenoms, missing one envemom won't be enough to throw off the whole cycle, the next envenom will come long before slice and dice is close to falling off. It would take a few missed envenoms in a row, which would be a rare occurance.

[Annoying]

Is the EP value of expertise really high enough for it to be worth gemming over attack power if the gear you have give very little expertise? My expertise is extremely low and I would need to use ten red sockets to get anywhere close to capped for mutilate spec. For optimal dps should I pursue this route or simply gem AP and pick up quick recovery to compensate?

Yes. Way high enough.
As in aldriana was getting 4.0+ values on expertise below cap with certain gear sets, and 2.0+ with pretty much all sets.

[Whackojacko]

Yes. Way high enough.
As in aldriana was getting 4.0+ values on expertise below cap with certain gear sets, and 2.0+ with pretty much all sets.

oh wow...that's a lot. Once i lose my heroic vengeance of the forsaken for the emblem of frost haste trinket i will literally have zero expertise. I'm gonna feel ridiculous with ten +20 expertise gems though...lol

[bbr]

Lacking "what gems" for combat spec.
You got mutilate listed though.

[Javanface]

Gonna take the time to go through this tonight. Sort the layout, add a few bits to combat and so on.

[Taraxacum]

I'm maybe in a rather unusual position of still carrying 4 x T8 gear rather than any T9 (I've ran VoA 25 man every week since 3.2 and never even seen a single item of Rogue PvE drop). This is partly due to the DKP our guild runs which means the return for my DKP is better spent on other drops. It's worked for me so far as in 25 mans I'm still top Rogue DPS on nearly all occasions .

Anyway, with these small poison changes I can see the massive advantage they are offering us, especially mutilate rogues like me. Unfortunately I cant play with the beta spreadsheets as of yet to get my answers. Am I right in guessing that dropping the rupture crit set bonus will be a net DPS gain specing into the new talent build with say 2 T9.5 items? I've not run any real numbers for this yet but my gut feeling is it will be.

Any other views/thoughts on this?

[sabrelime]

I have been testing the new mutilate spreadsheet and gemming hit is a dps boost over any other gem to a point, and gemming expertise is also worth a lot recommending you use 10hit/10expertise gems. After that stark and ap are the best choices. You will have to fiddle with it yourself to find where expertise and hit aren't worth it because sometimes the sheet tells you to do something but its really a dps loss.

[Eyetotem]

Has Adriana's combat spreadsheet been updated for the new changes?? I am kinda wanting to go ahead and run my gear through again with the new builds in case this thing DOES go live Tuesday.

I am one of those ArP softcap Combat rogues and I want to see what/if anything needs to be changed.

[Elvymir]

This may or may not have been answer.

With the changes to the gems used for a Mut Spec, which gem is best in lot say a blue slot, which would you rather put in, AP or the AP Haste mix. Im also assuming its shooters preference for the prismatic slots?

[Javanface]

This may or may not have been answer.

With the changes to the gems used for a Mut Spec, which gem is best in lot say a blue slot, which would you rather put in, AP or the AP Haste mix. Im also assuming its shooters preference for the prismatic slots?

The best answer will always be to spreadsheet it.

However, Angstrom was nice enough to provide us with some sample EP values from a spreadsheet with his gear for 3.3.

A bit of 3.3 info for people that care. All of this is purely theory, but is all heavily discussed and confirmed by the spreadsheets at EJ.

Spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...17Mx_V,aY,9767
Appears to be the cookie cutter spec at the moment, with the only changes being blood spatter vs QR vs FF.
BS is mandatory if the spreadsheet says you should be rupturing, as is the rupture glyph. Otherwise it's QR or FF depending on if you're expertise capped or not.

New enchants:
Weapons = Mongoose (QQ, i know).
Cloak = haste.

Sample EP (Taken from my spreadsheet with my gear, so YMMV):
AP1
Strength1.1
Agility1.8
Crit 1.48
White Hit(above crit cap) 2.14
White Hit 1.88
Spell Hit 3.32
Expertise 2.69
Haste 1.94
ArP 1.35

Gemming for AP (red/blue), AP/haste(yellow below crit cap), AP/Hit (Yellow above crit cap)

So with haste at 1.94 and AP at 1, a pure AP gem comes out at 40 EP, while an AP/Haste comes out to 39.4 EP. Results will vary with your gear, so be sure to check your own!

[Nuggyy]

for the 20 51 0 spec can someone post a rotation plz thanks

[Javanface]

4+ cp envenoms while keeping snd and hfb up, avoiding capping energy and clipping the envenom buff. That's about it.

[bbr]

The best answer will always be to spreadsheet it.

However, Angstrom was nice enough to provide us with some sample EP values from a spreadsheet with his gear for 3.3.

Is that modelled with the T9 gear or T10 gear?

What's "his gear"?

[Javanface]

mix of 245 and 258 gear.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...eak&n=Angstrom

[Skilz]

With these changes making haste a desirable stat. Would http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48722 by any chance surpass http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40684 ?

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...hisper&n=Skilz Armory link if it matters any. Got some leggs I'll use in 3.3 with 90 haste that will put me up to 407 haste.

[Nuggyy]

4+ cp envenoms while keeping snd and hfb up, avoiding capping energy and clipping the envenom buff. That's about it.

20 51 0 spec is combat how can u have hfb

[Javanface]

20 51 0 spec is combat how can u have hfb

Good catch, this is my second all-nighter in a row doing course work so things are getting a bit fuzzy.

[Annoying]

Is that modelled with the T9 gear or T10 gear?

What's "his gear"?

Combat Beta:
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...3/#post1479064

Mut Beta:
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...4/#post1481303

If you wanna take a stab at it with your own =D

The crit cap is extra delicate. I was bouncing back and forth between hit and haste as primary yellow stat to add on to AP. Ended up only needing one (its on the offhand that gets poisonswapped when i don't pay attention...), but nonetheless, expect to see great fluctuation in haste vs hit near the crit cap.

[Deleted]

With the 3.3 changes i will go mutilate, but i am lacking fast daggers, will 245 ilvl dagger from TOC25 but slow be better for OH than any 232 daggers from TOC10?