Well geared Holy, am I gemming wrong?

[Cronosmite]

Ignore the man. Never gem 23SP if you're going for an Int/sp gem scheme. Reason is this:

23SP + 20Int?
or 2x 12SP + 2x 12Int???? I know which I prefer...

As Holy I gem Luminous Ametrein (Int / SP) in red/yellow and throw Purified Dreadstones in blues where the bonus is worth it.

Luminous Ametrine only provides 10 intellect as opposed to the 12 you imply. Either way this is still a net gain of 1 spellpower for every 2 gems you socket in this manner, as well as making it easier to reach socket bonuses due to being able to make yellow/red bonuses instead of gemming the specific color.

[harky]

Ignore the man. Never gem 23SP if you're going for an Int/sp gem scheme. Reason is this:

23SP + 20Int?
or 2x 12SP + 2x 12Int???? I know which I prefer...

You're wrong on two counts:
1.) As mentioned above it's 12 SP/10 Int, not 12/12.
2.) It assumes an equal number of Red and Yellow. Depending on which stats you're working towards it would be a net loss in one to gem straight SP+Int in Red/Yellow unless you have equal numbers of sockets, in which cast you'd be gaining 1 SP per 2 sockets. If you do not (more likely), then the straight Int gems would be able to make up for the losses. For instance if you have 3 Red and 2 Yellow sockets, then straight SP+Int comes out to 60 SP and 50 Int. If you gem pure SP, or pure Int you get 69 SP and 40 Int. You're trading 9 SP for 10 Int. The post you quoted was under the assumption that the OP eeded to push slightly more regen, not a massive amount. In that case that 9 SP would probably be more important than 10 Int.

[Zeuq]

Just noticed this. Healing Prayers also reduces PoM mana costs. Yes, it's low mana to begin with, but it's also something you'll be casting every time it's up. The question I always ask is: What are you taking instead? 2/2 SoL? 1/2 is all you'd ever want. Max Spell Warding? That last point isn't really a huge selling point, it's filler in the tree. Emp. Healing? Not worth it's weight in rotten stinky fish. Same goes for Lightwell. So... what are you taking in its place? Inner Focus maybe? It's useful if you cast Hymn with it, but otherwise it's a mana loss over 1/2 Healing Prayers just from PoM. It might not be as required as it once was, but is there anything else worth taking? I don't see it.

There's lots of options for those two points if you're not having mana problems. I'm in that situation where I'm simply not having any mana problems where, even without that talent, I'm finding I still have a plethora of mana and am starting to switch my gems for my throughput. Thus, it just doesn't make much sense to have a situationally useful mana conservation talent. In my situation, I think it makes more sense to pick up even a poor throughput talent, like Empowered Healing, over an unneeded, and more importantly situational, conservation talent. I also think in this sort of situation 2/2 SoL is even superior.

You see, I'd rather have my regen through talents be less situational because it's less mutable than gear. If I'm in a situation where I don't need Healing Prayers, there's nothing I can do to turn those talent points into something else useful. However, if I'm in a situation where I need more regen, I can simply swap a regen trinket for a throughput trinket and that will usually serve the same purpose. Currently, the only fight I feel like I need to swap in a regen trinket is Heroic Twins and, while Healing Prayers would help there with PoM, trading in a regen trinket will net roughly the same amount of mana.

[Zeuq]

You're wrong on two counts:
1.) As mentioned above it's 12 SP/10 Int, not 12/12.
2.) It assumes an equal number of Red and Yellow. Depending on which stats you're working towards it would be a net loss in one to gem straight SP+Int in Red/Yellow unless you have equal numbers of sockets, in which cast you'd be gaining 1 SP per 2 sockets. If you do not (more likely), then the straight Int gems would be able to make up for the losses. For instance if you have 3 Red and 2 Yellow sockets, then straight SP+Int comes out to 60 SP and 50 Int. If you gem pure SP, or pure Int you get 69 SP and 40 Int. You're trading 9 SP for 10 Int. The post you quoted was under the assumption that the OP eeded to push slightly more regen, not a massive amount. In that case that 9 SP would probably be more important than 10 Int.

You point out, he's not completely correct; however, there is an important point to be taken from it. Using your example, you potentially have better options. Your second example uses 3 SP and 2 Int, you can directly improve on that with 1 SP and 4 SP/Int gems for 71 SP and 40 Int; you gain 2 SP and lose neither Int nor potential socket bonuses.

IOW, there is a rule for maximizing your gemming. If you have a Pure SP and a Pure Int gem in your gear, replace each with a SP/Int and you get 1 SP for free. In fact, you can generalize that to any caster class such that Pure SP and any other pure gem (Spirit, Haste, Crit, Hit, MP5, etc.) can be traded for hybrids for a 1 SP gain.

[Worshaka]

Ok now everyone has me wondering about my gemming. First of all, sorry for the wall. I play main spec holy. I have 2874sp, just under 24k mana, 23% crit, and 21% haste, 602/340 mp5 all self buffed. I am somewhat new to a priest and I gemmed 100% sp in all slots. I am wondering if I have an over abundance of sp at the sacrifice of other stats that may be more valuable at this point. I still have some lousy trinkets and poor gear in other spots, but overall I feel I'm very well geared (5224gs not that it matters). I have no problem with overall healing done, or hps. I usually top the meters on both overall and high hps with also the lowest % of overhealing. But I do feel at times I suffer mana regen issues. I by no means go all out unless absolutely needed, and have recently found out that my tendency to assist tank healing too often attributes to part of my problem. But saying everything goes as intended, I'm still doing a frequent request of mana tide, or using the shadowfiend/hymn of hope combo during every fight. I even keep a few stacks of mana potion to assist if needed. I have inner focus, but usually only use it if I need to Divine Hymn. Can anyone give me advice?

Holy needs to manage it's mana, at very high gear levels that need diminishes quite a bit but I believe you should begin by increasing your mana pool and increasing your throughput by changing your playstyle to be more spammy and thus cast more spells. I basically used 20 spirit, 10 int/10 spirit & 9sp / 10 int as my gems for blue, yellow & red respectively. I got to a point where I reached 26K mana and 600mp/5 while casting where I found it particularly hard to go oom. I wasn't even using my shadow fiend and could spam my mana all day (within reason).

When I got to this point I began changing my gems to throughput, 23 SP, 12 SP/ 10 Haste & 12 SP / 10 spirit for Red Yellow & blue respectively.

I also have began using items that have no regen stats on them in favour for upping my SP & haste in particular because these 2 stats are the highest in terms of throughput. Despite what others might say crit is a poor throughput stat, it just provides RNG burst healing and increases your mana pool due to SoL procs & Holy Concentration. Obviously if you have lots of mana you don't really need to increase those attributes.

So in short, gem for increasing your mana pool, try to spam more and when you find the moment you cease going oom start switching in throughput gems.

[Oden]

Ok now that I'm getting great advice from everyone I figured I'd hijack my own thread. I have Mantle of Revered Mortality shoulders. Just got a Trophy and can get 9.5 replacements right now. I would lose 1.8%haste and gain 1.4%crit, all other stats exactly the same. Do you think it's worth it? Would be my 3rd piece of tier, I am just under 21% haste and just over 23% crit, so I'm feeling very haste heavy right now. Both my helm and chest are other options but to be honest, I'm pretty sure both are better than tier. Your thoughts wise forum members.

[Oden]

Also, to give feedback. As of right now I changed to the correct meta gem, and swapped in one 12sp/10int and one 12sp/10sp gems to fulfill meta requirements. Also respecced to give me 2 points in healing prayers. I intend to regem more but ran out of time before the raid. I was still top on heals, top hps (and also had a higher sustained hps than I normally do) and my mana issues have severely reduced. I did go oom on champs, but was also nearly double the next closest person for top dispels, so I'm ok with that. I still don't feel I have low mana concerns completely resolved, but everyone's advice has certainly sent me in the right direction. It looks like we have success.

[caintic]

Also, to give feedback. As of right now I changed to the correct meta gem, and swapped in one 12sp/10int and one 12sp/10sp gems to fulfill meta requirements. Also respecced to give me 2 points in healing prayers. I intend to regem more but ran out of time before the raid. I was still top on heals, top hps (and also had a higher sustained hps than I normally do) and my mana issues have severely reduced. I did go oom on champs, but was also nearly double the next closest person for top dispels, so I'm ok with that. I still don't feel I have low mana concerns completely resolved, but everyone's advice has certainly sent me in the right direction. It looks like we have success.

Good to hear that we all got your problems fixed for you.. just another question.. How far ahead of the other healers are you? Not in a fight like champs, but a good solid healing fight? Do you think that maybe your other healers just aren't doing what they need to and you are making up for it, thus going oom faster then you should be?

[Oden]

Good to hear that we all got your problems fixed for you.. just another question.. How far ahead of the other healers are you? Not in a fight like champs, but a good solid healing fight? Do you think that maybe your other healers just aren't doing what they need to and you are making up for it, thus going oom faster then you should be?

Last night I wasn't far ahead, there was a decently geared Holy pally nipping at my heals(no pun) for most of the raid. Within probably 100k. Of course he was 75% overhealing to my 32%, but still, that's normal it seems. Another Holy priest, tree, and resto shaman quite a bit back. So sometimes yes it may be the others aren't pulling weight and if I oom then I can accept it unless my inability to heal causes a wipe. But my problem seemed to stem across the board with any fight any raid combo. So as a whole I would venture to say it was more of an issue on my end. Which I'm happy to see is looking more positive. I still have some more gems to replace, I will probably take care of any that are in yellow or blue slots, then start working on the red slots if need be. Man this is gonna be pricey.

[stupidjawa]

Well i used to do very much the same thing you did and stacked pure SP for a long time and i was topping meters easy while doing it but my mana was crap and i would OOM far faster then i should have been... my solution was to change meta gem to the "Insightful Earthsiege Diamond" and other then a select few sockets i changed my gems... and as a general rule of thumb this is what iv done for gems

Red - 23 SP
Yellow - 12 SP/10 Int
Blue - 12 SP/10 spirit

The only times i dont put a 12SP/10 Int gem into yellow sockets is if the socket bonus is low... so in my case thats my belt and neck

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...thas&n=Thejawa

^^^^ my armory page if u feel like u wanna take a look and compare

ever need any help/advice just send me a PM or u can find me on Arthas running round in Dal bored

[Bigslick]

Another thing - you're using the wrong meta. The only good healer meta is Insightful Earthsiege Diamond - it simply returns so much mana that all other metas pale in comparison.

Regarding this, I'll agree that IED is usually the best choice for healers, but not that it is the 'only good healer meta' or even that it is the best choice. It presumes the need for the mana regen.

Depending on class/spec and gearing level, Ember Skyflare Diamond (+25 SP and 2% Intellect) can be superior. Once you reach a certain level of Intellect, this actually provides more Int than IED. Then it's a matter of which is more valuable to you: 25 SP or mana restore. Note that ESD also alleviates the requirement for 1 of each gem (ESD req. 3x red gem, which pretty much is a given) allowing one to gem completely for throughput when gear offers sufficient regen on its own.

Edit: I haven't played holy since BC, so can't speak to whether gear levels or the OOC playstyle of holy would lend itself towards the ESD option, but it absolutely can become the meta of preference for disc priests and holy paladins at high gearing.

[Kelesti]

In response to you, Bigslick:
A Holy Priest can pick up the ESD, but then they'll end up having to find their mana elsewhere, and the IED is grossly over budget so you'll be paying for it threefold (unless you have something outrageous like Spark of Hope and heroic Solace, but by then you'd probably want a thoroughput trinket and are paying for it anyways).

[Bigslick]

@ Kelesti - agreed 100%. For most healers it is far and away the best choice. Just wanted to make the point that others can be viable (running dual solace I'm at 860mp5 raid buffed so pushing throughput every way I can. The loss of throughput from slightly better trinkets - as in IODS - is more than made up by the flexibility they allow elsewhere. Though when mana concerns are completely trivial it and EOBM still wander into those slots.

[llDemonll]

I run ESD and have for a long time (since I first went disc @ 80) and haven't had any problems as holy healing (I use the exact same gear as I do for disc). I haven't tried ISD as holy, and it may make my mana return larger so I can't comment on that, but the meta gem doesn't make the player IMO

[Azyoulike]

I haven't tried ISD as holy, and it may make my mana return larger so I can't comment on that, but the meta gem doesn't make the player IMO

No it just makes for 75+ MP5, which for holy means you can push out more expensive spells. Gear doesn't make the player, but bad gear choices will make the player worse.

The ESD is good for disc because disc doesn't need the mana as much as the throughput, and ESD gives SP. IED is superior regen for either spec, and holy really cares about that regen.

Trading 50 MP5 for 25 SP makes sense as disc, but it doesn't make sense for anybody else.