Poll: Can a lack of addons be compensated by having more skill?

[wolfwood888]

Add ons do not make a bad player a good player, or a good player a great player, all add ons do is make it easier for people. I personally don't use DBM or any other mods like that, but I don't begrudge people that do, I do use alot of addons to keep track of things, or do things that I could make a macro for, like announce when I shield wall, etc. I just find add ons are a great way to help manage certain aspects of the game some what easier and lets you make your UI more customizable. In essence I do not think the the lack of add ons or the use of many add ons really matters with skill level, people with dbm still die in fire, they are just bad.

[Cruzader]

Honestly if you think that you can keep track of all of that without some kind of control and expect to perform well you're an idiot and you're only hurting yourself.

lol.

No. You can't play WoW without add-ons because the game gets too complicated.

Orly?

Pfft.

OFC you dont need addons! Proof...

http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=133081

Rank 1 Priest in the world in every arena bracket. Addons used? none.

Fuck the system.

[Rafy]

you cannot do Anub25 HM with 1 add tank without a timer(stopwatch) or an addon (DBM, etc.) <- Shadow strike.
you also can't manage your healers to heal PC if there's no addon to mark people.
you will never get Insanity if you're not using DBM or other similar boss mods on that fight.

conclusion: on some fights you're fine without them, but on some fights not only that it's good to have it, but IT IS REQUIRED to achieve you goal / kill.

[Sharaki]

tsk, what are these addons of which you speak?

been running things fine, if anything i think it's easier to raid without 20 addons cluttering your screen.
--
was doing fine in 25 man TOC, and looking foreward to getting into the guild run of ICC soon.

First of all, what this is about? Clearing normal ToC25 without addons? Killing 25hc anub without addons? This topic is about hardmode content. Normalmodes simplify most tactics required: one can stand in his fire and boss still dies, dps doesn't need to be optimal and boss dies, etc. That being said, normal modes require more skill than gear but it isn't addon related skill to dps correct target or move out from fire.

Need of the addons mostly depends on what class you are playing. Playing shadowpriest or afflilock without spelltracker (dotimers, fx, etc) will lower your performance, for example. Playing healer without addons will affect how well he performs. Then there is things like PallyPower, I need to mention it becouse I have met many paladins who say it's useless addon. Of course paladins can inspect others, see what talents others have, communicate who does what according those talents and what aura they will use, click raidmembers one by one to see if they have buffs. Or just use addon which does this all. It's not about skill, it's timesaver (and many random people are unable to do this 'communication' thingie). So far I haven't met paladin without PP who has done that, ending up with "my bless is missing" shouts..

Then how people use their DBM. Some people say DBM is used to warn "You are standing in a fire", is that how/why YOU used it? It's there to show timers for boss abilities (noted, someone could remember all specific times when something happens even in bossfights with 5-7 separated timers and use his skills according to this althou it would take enormous amount of time to set it all right), having healthbars for encounters like mimiron or freya so people doesn't need to constantly switch targets just to see hp. Then we have things like Penetrating Cold in anub which kills people in seconds at p3, DBM helps with those by marking them.

In the end, just having addons doesn't mean they help. It takes skill to use them for better performance. Thanks to contentpatches breaking most addons, I cleared toc25/u25 without addons yet I can perform much better with them, having better timing etc.
"Skill to me is the ability to maximize your output. Maximizing it through addons and knowledge of fights/class. You can compete without them, but you're gimping yourself and thus others that play with you."

[Rowen]

Since addons are an approved part of wow, and the game is designed with the idea of addons in mind, I'd argue that part of the "skill" is choosing the right addon.

Not enough addons, information is disperse and difficult to interpret. Too many, and you may suffer of information overload.

[LeperHerring]

you cannot do Anub25 HM with 1 add tank without a timer(stopwatch) or an addon (DBM, etc.) <- Shadow strike.
you also can't manage your healers to heal PC if there's no addon to mark people.
you will never get Insanity if you're not using DBM or other similar boss mods on that fight.

conclusion: on some fights you're fine without them, but on some fights not only that it's good to have it, but IT IS REQUIRED to achieve you goal / kill.

I was just about to post this. Blizzard tunes the fights with the assumption that people are using addons like bossmods. Fights like Anub 25 hc are practically impossible to learn and beat without addons, and there is no amount of skill that can compensate for it.

[Keoren]

you cannot do Anub25 HM with 1 add tank without a timer(stopwatch) or an addon (DBM, etc.) <- Shadow strike.

The shadow strikes are interruptable even without the timers, I think even something like a rough estimate of 70 guilds did it before the common addons had the times right or them at all and I would be surprised if more than a handful had their own stopwatches running. It was all about fast reactions with assigned interrupters for every mob.

That said, the reliable timers make the fight twice as easy and I would definitely not stop using them for artificial challenge.

[wolfwood888]

I disagree, you can do anything in the game without addons, it makes it more difficult but its possible.

[Biernot]

Theoretically you could compensate for having no addons. But in reality (talking about endgame raiding) it is just too much to handle.

Imagine having to heal endgame content without grid + gridraiddebuffs (+ dbm). Blizzards standard raidframes suck ass big time. There is no way, you can track all the crucial debuffs in current endgame content.

[Dubbelprik]

Only addons I use are Itemrack and DMGmeter so no deadly bossmods or w/e never had deadly bossmods afer tbc started even.
And I'm in a 10man raiding guild.
Got the 45 tries chest @ toc HM (also 49 gogo 50 soon ><)
Got server first Magic Seeker on another char (first main)

So don't know, you tell me I guess.

[Keoren]

I disagree, you can do anything in the game without addons, it makes it more difficult but its possible.

It's also possible to win Superbowl without taking your right pinky finger off your left nostril. It makes it more difficulty, but it's possible.

[Rosechyld]

I think its funny that like 80% of the people posting about how they don't use addons and they clear content just fine are DPS I guarantee your healer core hates you so much. "OMG XX Dps always dies to fire/nova/shockblast."

As a healer - Addons like DBM and grid (or any other raid frame UI) is irreplaceable. I long for the day that Bliz fixes its raid UI to something similar to a grid style that I can configure to give me an idea of who's taking the most damage and needs an extra HoT or a bubble, or angel.

Yes yes, green bars and all - but green bars dipping are in no way an indication of who's going to keel over dead in a half second for not moving out of fire fast enough, or who's going to eat a hateful or step on a landmine, or not move out of the giant glowy rocket strike or get meleed by a bug add or -- you get the point.

Blizzard's current raid frames suck, and while is damn possible to do -- and if anyone remembers trying to raid in vanilla, you'll know that it is -- addons make your life, and everyone else's, a little bit easier -- so you can focus on the things you're actually supposed to be doing.

So sure, Skill > Addon, but any really skilled player will have at least some kind of addon to make the "super skilled only" bits of a fight less time consuming. Skill isn't about how baddass you are for being the only rogue with out cooldown timers that can still manage to pull 8k dps FoK spamming (Yes I'm aware you can't do this anymore). Its about working with your raid to be as efficient and coherent as possible.

Trust me, no one likes the "no Addon" guy. He's like the "IRL girl, no vent" guy. No one gives a rat's patoot if you're mister no addon slick dude. Just like no one cares if you're actually a dude. Suck it up, be a team player -- that's what raiding's about.

<3 :-*