A thought on old WotLK Heroics

[Asjes]

ALL TBC Heroics required cc for the average players up to T5, which is perfectly understandable. You go in a 3.0 Heroic right when you hit 80, go in frost presence, defense stance, bear form, or put up RF no matter what spec you are, and you're considered a suitable tank. YOU do the math.

Unless you got a sick healer that is impossible, Any specc? except for DKs, no. Right after you hit 80 barely anyone's got the defcap, so again. No.

For sure the new ones, you honestly think a justdinged DK in blues can tank that shit?
40k hp tanks manage to get bursted...

[Ganoes]

ALL TBC Heroics required cc for the average players up to T5, which is perfectly understandable. You go in a 3.0 Heroic right when you hit 80, go in frost presence, defense stance, bear form, or put up RF no matter what spec you are, and you're considered a suitable tank. YOU do the math.

This isn't true. My druid dinged 70 during Season 2. I dinged while AOE tanking regular Shadow Labs. Immediately after dinging 70 I went straight to Slave Pens and started AOE tanking and if anyone used CC, I booted them from my groups after a warning. I used a combination of quest gear / pvp gear / BOE gear from the AH (the blue trinket from Ogri'la trash for instance) / reputation gear and so on. My gear wasn't anywhere near T5 ready. Heroic Slave Pens was DEAD easy. If I had a paladin tank, all heroics in TBC were retardedly easy until MgT came out.

You had to do a bit more planning in TBC for your starter gear, but they were still easy as pie if you knew what you were doing with a few notable exceptions that were never ran by anyone, even if they were the daily heroic. We only have one heroic like that with WotLK: Oculus. In TBC, we had Arcatraz, Shadow Labs, Shattered Halls, Durnholde, Auchenai Crypts... no one ever ran those heroics. It took me about 6 months after dinging 70 on my first toon to run heroic Durnholde, if not more. No one ever ran it, EVER.

Blizzard sees these stats and designs their heroics accordingly. The easy heroics got ran every day, the hard heroics were shunned.

[trixia]

Unless you got a sick healer that is impossible, Any specc? except for DKs, no. Right after you hit 80 barely anyone's got the defcap, so again. No.

For sure the new ones, you honestly think a justdinged DK in blues can tank that shit?
40k hp tanks manage to get bursted...

Ya I do. Maybe it's just my class (Holy Paladin) because I find myself extremely bored when I have a decent tank in group because there is no damage taken and even ever there is, a FoL will take care of it. After that, I sit back down and write in this forum until the tank gets hit for 3k. And like I said, it's just an exaggeration (>.<) I make the tanks sometimes spec to DPS to make things fun and challenging.

[davidwh2]

i wouldnt be against a God mode or something similar for the lower heroics just for the challenge and fun.

however one thing ive learned about playing video games and i dont know if its been mentioned but could it be that some of these heroics arent challenging just due to the fact that you know the fights and the layout?

after running it so many times you get used to what a boss will do and what you should do. gear isnt the only reason it gets easier but to those who say the gear makes it easier i understand your point and its valid.

its just something to think about

[Ganoes]

Ya I do. Maybe it's just my class (Holy Paladin) because I find myself extremely bored when I have a decent tank in group because there is no damage taken and even ever there is, a FoL will take care of it. After that, I sit back down and write in this forum until the tank gets hit for 3k. And like I said, it's just an exaggeration (>.<) I make the tanks sometimes spec to DPS to make things fun and challenging.

Don't go as a healer if the heroic is easy enough. Heroic VH for instance doesn't need a healer. Just go as ret and occasionally use an Art of War proc on the tank.

[Evert]

Yeah sure, make them hard mode,
nice way to gear my new lvl 80 hunter, you retard ask for a freaking epic ach in UK,
and if you dont have it, you noob, some one else will replace you.
You dont belong in HC instance, you only prefer the easy way to gear up!
If you like challenge, go do some HC raids instead of a 5 man dungeon.
Blizz gives you challenge, but you decline to use it and just wine about the easy HCs.
Plz some one make you always wining creatures stop, get wiped or something but just stop!
The game offers everything you want: Challenge- ToTC HC?
Gear up-ToTC HC emblems?
IF you dont care that much about drops, prefer 5/10 man go do ICC or ToTC.
HCs are made to gear up and not to provide you with an overload of badge gear.
The reason why the drop badges is to make gearing up EASY for new players.
The reason why we have raids is to offer you challenge.
The reason why you do HCs is because you like easy stuff
The reason why it becomes BORINg

[vanghost]

why do so many people complain about everything? i feel like the only one who still likes this game sometimes

[davidwh2]

why do so many people complain about everything? i feel like the only one who still likes this game sometimes

i know what you mean!

[Paperpants]

Seriously, how many TBC heroics were a challenge once you were in SSC gear?

I dunno i just thought of a few moments

Arcatraz
Mechanar 2nd to last boss (pre nerf)
Steamvaults
UB Last boss
Shadowlabs
MT last boss
Some of the pulls in SH with little CC was pretty bad ass
Black Morass in general wasnt very easy
MgT heroic was definately pretty savage as well.

[Gambyt]

Yeah sure, make them hard mode,
nice way to gear my new lvl 80 hunter, you retard ask for a freaking epic ach in UK,
and if you dont have it, you noob, some one else will replace you.
You dont belong in HC instance, you only prefer the easy way to gear up!
If you like challenge, go do some HC raids instead of a 5 man dungeon.
Blizz gives you challenge, but you decline to use it and just wine about the easy HCs.
Plz some one make you always wining creatures stop, get wiped or something but just stop!
The game offers everything you want: Challenge- ToTC HC?
Gear up-ToTC HC emblems?
IF you dont care that much about drops, prefer 5/10 man go do ICC or ToTC.
HCs are made to gear up and not to provide you with an overload of badge gear.
The reason why the drop badges is to make gearing up EASY for new players.
The reason why we have raids is to offer you challenge.
The reason why you do HCs is because you like easy stuff
The reason why it becomes BORINg

The problem is that not everyone does raids of 25 (heroic or not), because not everyone has a competitive guild or the guild does more 5-10m instances.
Some of the TBC heroics were in some way difficult for some players. You had to cc and stuff before charging in, which now is just charge aoe and kill leftovers.
Wotlk brought, at least 5 mans heroics down to their knees with their low difficulty and no challenge at all. Well the majority of the players didn't mind because if it's easy there's nothing to qq about so nobody complained about those, because the hardcore players were complaining about the 25 man being easy and didn't cared about anything else.

[Tarantism]

Uhhhh that's not what happened. Blizzard tracks who runs which heroic. They saw that people ran Heroic Slave Pens about 100 times more often than Heroic Shadow Labs and they did the math. They made all the heroics like Slave Pens and none like Shadow Labs.

I severely doubt it was 100 times more often

More over, Shadow labs was my favorite TBC heroic, but I ran slave pens way more often than slabs because I wanted Quag's Eye (that trinket was amazing, and I ended up using it until brutallus). Maybe people just ran SP more because it had better drops?

[Sharaki]

I severely doubt it was 100 times more often

More over, Shadow labs was my favorite TBC heroic, but I ran slave pens way more often than slabs because I wanted Quag's Eye (that trinket was amazing, and I ended up using it until brutallus). Maybe people just ran SP more because it had better drops?

Slave Pens ment fast badges - thats why I always got full grp for it and fast.
Slave Pens dropped trinket - the reason why I went there, not for the badges.

[Ganoes]

I dunno i just thought of a few moments

Arcatraz
Mechanar 2nd to last boss (pre nerf)
Steamvaults
UB Last boss
Shadowlabs
MT last boss
Some of the pulls in SH with little CC was pretty bad ass
Black Morass in general wasnt very easy
MgT heroic was definately pretty savage as well.

None of that was hard in T5.

[Ganoes]

I severely doubt it was 100 times more often

More over, Shadow labs was my favorite TBC heroic, but I ran slave pens way more often than slabs because I wanted Quag's Eye (that trinket was amazing, and I ended up using it until brutallus). Maybe people just ran SP more because it had better drops?

Slave Pens took about 15 minutes.
Shadow Labyrinth took about 1 hour.

That's why people ran Slave Pens so much more often. I personally didn't want that trinket and no one I ran with did either because they all already had it.

[DeosDarkk]

My main problem with all this I guess, is as a descently geared 80 is that there really isn't enough enjoyable stuff to do for a PvE-er. Yea, thats what achievement and PvP and Raids are for. But I don't like PvP all that much, achievement whoreing was cool on Xbox but I've grown tired of it. Raiding is fun, it just requires 9-24 other people to be on and of like mind at the same time, for a few hours at least. And you can only run them once a week.

If, say, my guild only does 10-mans due to lack of players, and we get super lucky and we rock, and we clear ICC 10 and ToC 10 Tues and Wed, what is there for me to do the rest of the week? =/

[Paperpants]

None of that was hard in T5.

Firstly just want to make t5 gear is not t5 gear and boj shizzle when you could buy awesome shit, it back in the day when t5 and badges armor were hugely different in stats.

thats a lie and you know it, even in t5 some of the encounters I mentioned were difficult, not impossible and 1 shottable. I just listed the most challenging ones. 2nd to last boss in mechanar was particually difficult mainly because the group healing was very intenstive.

The shattered halls pulls were hard in tier 5 if you didnt have right setups, I played druid tank in t5/s2 gear and I got hit extremely hard on those pulls with 1 or 2 cc'd. They consisted of ms mobs hard hitting melee and casters. Plus the 2nd boss aggroing clothies was definatley healing intensive in t5 gear.

Black Morrass was a general pain again mainly because:

1. It was a new concept of instancing and even after pratice
2. It was tuned quite highly the portal keepers had a lot of hp in comparsion to the normal verision and also comparing it to VH they took a lot longer to kill.
3. The 2nd boss with his debuff in T5 gear didnt provide enough avoidance to reset it, so the healing got very intenstive towards the end.

Steamvaults 1st boss hit stupidly hard with clouds and lung burst. Nothing comparable in woltk that does huge group damage whilst still spanking the tank silly.

They are just a few examples of what made the hc's acutally heroics back in the day. Thus this is why I still ran them even in full t6 as they provided more challenge, than running a heroic in woltk with full t7.

So dont sit there and say it was easy because if you played from the start of tbc you know those encounters were harder than any woltk hc, until they were hit by the nerf hammer around 3.2 I think.

[Ganoes]

Firstly just want to make t5 gear is not t5 gear and boj shizzle when you could buy awesome shit, it back in the day when t5 and badges armor were hugely different in stats.

thats a lie and you know it, even in t5 some of the encounters I mentioned were difficult, not impossible and 1 shottable. I just listed the most challenging ones. 2nd to last boss in mechanar was particually difficult mainly because the group healing was very intenstive.

The shattered halls pulls were hard in tier 5 if you didnt have right setups, I played druid tank in t5/s2 gear and I got hit extremely hard on those pulls with 1 or 2 cc'd. They consisted of ms mobs hard hitting melee and casters. Plus the 2nd boss aggroing clothies was definatley healing intensive in t5 gear.

Black Morrass was a general pain again mainly because:

1. It was a new concept of instancing and even after pratice
2. It was tuned quite highly the portal keepers had a lot of hp in comparsion to the normal verision and also comparing it to VH they took a lot longer to kill.
3. The 2nd boss with his debuff in T5 gear didnt provide enough avoidance to reset it, so the healing got very intenstive towards the end.

Steamvaults 1st boss hit stupidly hard with clouds and lung burst. Nothing comparable in woltk that does huge group damage whilst still spanking the tank silly.

They are just a few examples of what made the hc's acutally heroics back in the day. Thus this is why I still ran them even in full t6 as they provided more challenge, than running a heroic in woltk with full t7.

So dont sit there and say it was easy because if you played from the start of tbc you know those encounters were harder than any woltk hc, until they were hit by the nerf hammer around 3.2 I think.

I played a druid tank at level 70. Heroic Shattered Halls was dead easy to tank and I barely took damage and I was in a 10 man only guild and I didn't have anything T5 at all. There simply aren't many caster mobs in Heroic Shattered Halls. Most mobs there are melee. And the third boss, the ogre with two heads that randomly attacked people, that was also only hard if your team didn't understand the concept of threat. With a hunter, it was extremely easy. Without a hunter, just tell the group to stop dps when the boss emotes and it was cake.

Many of the things you mentioned about healing were caused by horrible players. For instance, the fire lady boss with elemental adds in Mechanar was only hard when you had a team that didn't understand how to kite the fire elementals. The damage was only high if people failed at simple tasks. otherwise, the healing was actually really easy.

Same with the first boss in Steamvaults. Sure, if your team didn't understand how to move from the clouds it was hard, but that's because you were playing with idiots. The hardest part about Steamvaults was clearing the trash to that boss due to fear.

Black Morass was only a struggle with slow dps. With people that understood how to play it was actually incredibly easy. If you were in T5, the point of that post, you had high dps and BM was incredibly easy.

You must not have ever run those heroics in T5 gear. I ran with a paladin tank in T5 once to Heroic SH and we just chain pulled the place and finished in like 30 minutes. It was retarded. He was tanking over 10 mobs at once and not even taking damage.