what are your thoughts on the random heroic system?

[Monkeydagger]

After playing around with the system on the PTR I think the system is a great improvement to the game. I play on a server where the only heroics ever run are the daily and ToC so it's rather hard to farm badges, this new system should make it much easier to get badges.

I also enjoy the new disenchant option on rolls during the dungeon. It allows for items to be disenchanted even when an enchanter is not present. Or at least it seems that way, I can't really be sure if it requires an enchanter to be in the group or not due to the fact all premade characters have enchanting. It doesn't mention the need of having an enchanter for it in the patch notes though so we can assume that it doesn't require one. This option is really useful because it uses the blizz greed roll system to hand out enchanting mats so everyone gets a shot(I have been in quite a few groups where the enchanter refuses to hand out shards at the end). Another great part of this is that it also allows you to DE greens on the spot without having to find an enchanter who will do it for you.

Overall I think this new dungeon system is a great add to the game. Anyone else have thoughts or opinions towards this new system?

[MushroomBomb]

It requires an enchanter. It's just not specified anywhere. If there's no enchanter with high enough Enchanting (375, I think, for Northrend dungeons), there won't be any Disenchant option.

[FamilyGoat]

I also enjoy the new disenchant option on rolls during the dungeon. It allows for items to be disenchanted even when an enchanter is not present. Or at least it seems that way, I can't really be sure if it requires an enchanter to be in the group or not due to the fact all premade characters have enchanting. It doesn't mention the need of having an enchanter for it in the patch notes though so we can assume that it doesn't require one. This option is really useful because it uses the blizz greed roll system to hand out enchanting mats so everyone gets a shot(I have been in quite a few groups where the enchanter refuses to hand out shards at the end). Another great part of this is that it also allows you to DE greens on the spot without having to find an enchanter who will do it for you.

I really don't understand why enchanters are expected to split the shards for the run, unless they say I'll greed to de. I just greed everything without saying I'm an enchanter, and if someone tells me to split the shards at the end of a run, I lol. While this will be nice for non-enchanters, enchanter will get alot less shards now. If they are going to do this, they should split herbs/mining nodes/skinning too, in fairness. But this has been stated over and over, and blizzard doesn't seem to care.

[Powerogue]

seems like a great addition to me too. farming heroics for those badges has never been easier. ;D

....plus that perky pug and his rubbing his butt on the floor and sniffing it, MUST HAVE THAT PET

[Nartalath]

@FamilyGoat

I do expect to get a share of the shards. You DE gear that the group as a whole has earned by killing monsters in dungeons. Yes, the same can be said for skinners who skin mobs like Icehowl, but LW mats are used far less then enchanting mats- which are on most of our gear, which makes the enchanting mats far more valuable.

If you want to solo a dungeon for mats, go ahead. But if you're getting something as a result of a group kill, you need to share with the group, if the group agrees that DE'ing a blue/purple is more valuable than the gear itself.

[dogpie]

@FamilyGoat

I do expect to get a share of the shards. You DE gear that the group as a whole has earned by killing monsters in dungeons. Yes, the same can be said for skinners who skin mobs like Icehowl, but LW mats are used far less then enchanting mats- which are on most of our gear, which makes the enchanting mats far more valuable.

If you want to solo a dungeon for mats, go ahead. But if you're getting something as a result of a group kill, you need to share with the group, if the group agrees that DE'ing a blue/purple is more valuable than the gear itself.

I am an Enchanter and I do not like the Disenchant option. I leveled my Enchanting to 375+, I alone, not the group, therefore I and only I should be entitled to receive mats, because it is my profession. Why don't they just make an option that automatically converts Arctic Fur skinned from bosses to gold and splits it between each and every member? Because that's exactly what they are doing to Enchanting.

[vayron]

I am an Enchanter and I do not like the Disenchant option. I leveled my Enchanting to 375+, I alone, not the group, therefore I and only I should be entitled to receive mats, because it is my profession. Why don't they just make an option that automatically converts Arctic Fur skinned from bosses to gold and splits it between each and every member? Because that's exactly what they are doing to Enchanting.

This.
I understand the point of view that they should be shared, but I disagree. Until everyone is equally sharing the results of their professions that are earned while in a group, why should enchanters have to?

[mootness]

I am an Enchanter and I do not like the Disenchant option. I leveled my Enchanting to 375+, I alone, not the group, therefore I and only I should be entitled to receive mats, because it is my profession. Why don't they just make an option that automatically converts Arctic Fur skinned from bosses to gold and splits it between each and every member? Because that's exactly what they are doing to Enchanting.

I have no problem rolling to sell : )

[Revengica]

I am an Enchanter and I do not like the Disenchant option. I leveled my Enchanting to 375+, I alone, not the group, therefore I and only I should be entitled to receive mats, because it is my profession. Why don't they just make an option that automatically converts Arctic Fur skinned from bosses to gold and splits it between each and every member? Because that's exactly what they are doing to Enchanting.

I love you <33

[Tanksenior]

If you are the only enchanter in the group and don't want to share the shard, then just press greed, same result as greeding an item now.

If you press need on blues/epics for disenchanting I think you should hand out shards.
I'm an enchanter myself and I used to need for enchanting if no one else needed the item, though I've grown too lazy to do this so I just greed all of them.

On-topic:
I like the random heroic system and the group disenchant system, good for a lazy enchanter like myself.

[Necronomicon]

I too don't really like the idea of that, most of the time i simply greed and if i win, then fine i'll DE everything after the group disbands not only because i'd like to keep it, as a selfish human being that i am, but because if i actually go through the, even though minor, trouble to actually split the mats among the group i'm rarely ever thanked for it, nor do i receive any special benefit for letting them profit from my hard work of actually skilling the profession.

so thanks for the option, but no thanks.

[metzin]

I am an enchanter and have no problems with this, if anything it just makes my life easier. If everyone in the group is going to pass on an item so that it can be DE'ed they have as much right to the result as I do. If however everyone in the group greeds and item and I win it, I will be keeping the mats that result from the DE since I won the item. To me this system simply allows everyone to have a chance at receiving something when an item drops that no one needs rather then just the enchanter.

[FamilyGoat]

@FamilyGoat

I do expect to get a share of the shards. You DE gear that the group as a whole has earned by killing monsters in dungeons. Yes, the same can be said for skinners who skin mobs like Icehowl, but LW mats are used far less then enchanting mats- which are on most of our gear, which makes the enchanting mats far more valuable.

If you want to solo a dungeon for mats, go ahead. But if you're getting something as a result of a group kill, you need to share with the group, if the group agrees that DE'ing a blue/purple is more valuable than the gear itself.

You failed to get what I was saying. On all my toons (enchanter or not) I greed everything, since greed means I want that item, but I'm probably not going to use it. (greed for gold) If others don't greed, thats their problem. At the end of the run, if they expect shards, when I never said I was deing, that's their problem. Not to sound like a dick, but its my proffession, I lvled it, this is how I make money (cuz lol at trying to sell enchants).

I am an enchanter and have no problems with this, if anything it just makes my life easier. If everyone in the group is going to pass on an item so that it can be DE'ed they have as much right to the result as I do. If however everyone in the group greeds and item and I win it, I will be keeping the mats that result from the DE since I won the item. To me this system simply allows everyone to have a chance at receiving something when an item drops that no one needs rather then just the enchanter.

Bold and underlined the problem I have. What you just said means everyone should get a chance at Skined mobs/Mines/Herbs/Gas nodes (so far havn't seen those in dungeons though), the extra cloth tailors get from mobs or any other resource that drops from being a profession, since we (the group) made it possible for that individual to get the item, so why should only they get the rewards? I will have NO issues if they make this an option you can turn on or off, so the people that are lazy/feel like being nice to others can offer this, while the others who don't care about pugs, or would actually like to try and make money can have it turned off. It's not like the enchanters have things on ML and are stealing items, they (and this only refers to people that greed items in the hope of deing) are just greeding, and instead of selling to a merchant, they turn it into blue/purple sparkly things.

Again, I'm only speaking for those that greed items, those that need items to de, but don't offer it to others can diaf. Please also note, that if I greed and item and win, but someone else wanted it for an offspec, I have no issues giving the item to that person, since any use the item can get by use is better then turning it into sparklies.

EDIT: We've kinda derailed this post...

[Enderfish]

I think this is a nice option and take some of the end work out of DEing for the run. However, I do think it is slightly unfair to enchanters that their profession can be used by the rest of the group, while other professions, like skinning, herbing, and mining, still go to the toon that has that profession.

There are a few ways that this could be a better idea. First, and easiest, is just to let Enchanters choose whether they want their toon to allow group DEing in instances. If there are 2 enchanters and 1 doesn't want it, and the other does, then people can still choose the DE option. But if none of the enchanters present want to use the new tool, then it doesn't become an option in the loot window.

The 2nd way to make this more fair is to have a similar roll system for herbs, skins, and mines so that the whole group gets to roll on the items vs just the person with the profession. That way, when doing an instance products from ALL available professions are shared among the group, and not just the products from the enchanter's profession.

As it stands, if I understand how it works correctly, it is quite unfair for those of us who have spent time and money leveling enchanting to have to share one of our professions benefits with the rest of the group, when the other professions can still keep the benefits to themselves.

[moocowfrakmilk]

We've kinda derailed this post...

i have yet to see a post on the new dungeon system (which is awesome btw) that hasn't been derailed by this very subject

my 2 cents: as an enchanter i am more than happy to offer full DE service to my guildies, as feel thats part of my responsibility. It is however not in my best interest to provide this service to general pugs because selling enchanting mats and alch xmutes is the only way i make gold.

A dramatic increase in supply without a corresponding increase in demand deflates value. This is what i see as the bigger problem. The fact that everyone else is rolling on my profession but i don't get to roll on the Skinners arctic fur that runs for 150g a piece, while unjust doesn't actually hurt me in any real sense. But the inflation of the enchanting mat supply will.

[Forcelink]

I havnt been on the PTR, but from the sounds of it, Im not liking this deserter debuff crap. IF your grp is full of retards, you cant leave w/o being able to do another heroic for 15 minutes?what BS is that.And my server is highly self sufficient, so :-\

[Dalam]

My 2 cents on the disenchanting issue from the perspective of a person who runs dungeons regularly on a character with maxxed enchanted and on a character without the enchanting profession.

@ Enchanters. No, you don't deserve the shards because you are the one who has leveled enchanting. The blue or epic that drops off the boss has vendor value. If you are going to take all the shards, i would rather greed it so one of the other group members gets 5-20g from the vendor. Taking shards is like saying that you get all the drops that nobody can use for vendor value. Wonder how well that would go over?

@ Group members who have not leveled enchanting. You did not pay money to level the most expensive profession, and i did. Because of my work, i am turning the 5-20g vendor value into 20-60g.

My conclusion. No, enchanters DO NOT deserve all of the shards. I think that they deserve them MORE than the rest of the group though. That being said, if there are 4 shards for 5 people, the enchanter should get a shard automatically, then the other 4 people roll on the 3 shards. If there are 6 shards for 5 people, the enchanter should get 2 shards and the rest of the group 1 each.

[Darkspore]

They should split herbs/mining nodes/skinning too, in fairness.

To be honest I wouldn't care if they changed the nodes in dungeons so the contents were just handed out to the highest roller.
All the gathering profession stuff can be farmed outside of dungeons with more ease anyway.

The only change enchanters will see is that instead of people winning blues to vendor them, will win them as enchanting mats.
You don't get more mats yourself as the system is now unless you try to ninja the loot because "loot is your profession".
I actually think it's a good change for enchanting, it makes gear easier to replace for everyone.
They already did it to jewelcrafting by letting you buy it for marks and honor.

Also people who can only make money by taking tips when enchanting stuff for people or selling enchanting mats: try putting your enchants on armor/weapon vellum.

[bluehippo]

I love it gonna make farming heroic for alts so much easyer.

no more "lfm for heroic" and waiting 45 mins to get a group

[daenerys]

what a lot of people fail to realize when people think skinners and miners should share as well is that without them the skins/ore just rot, without an enchanter you still have gear that has a fairly good vendor value, sometimes the gear will even vendor for more than the DEd goods.

I can see though a lot of puggers not wanting to do this. but this would be an excellent time saver for guild shard runs so that the enchanter doesn't have to spend the time actually DEing each item.