Enhance: Black magic Vs Berserking?

[jddogg]

So i've been hearing talk about people going black magic on their offhand now?

I'd like to see which is actually better now on the offhand?
What would the proper enchants go? serking/black magic?

[Deleted]

I've only seen a few tests done with this. Appears that it gives 250 haste for 10 seconds with a 35 (might be mistaken here) second cooldown and can proc off lightning shield charges. In theory it should be better than berserking, but I haven't seen many people using it and haven't seen any claims that it in fact is a dps increase so I'm staying with double berserking for now. At least until some thorough tests have been done. Btw there is an option for it in enhsim so if you have some spare time you can do the testing and whatnot yourself.

[Renzokuken]

I believe that initial testing showed it to be inferior to double berserking, but it might still be worth testing.

[jddogg]

I'm dying to see what revva's standpoint on this all is.

[kudzupo]

Initial testing on EnhSim had BM as a dps loss on either MH or OH.

However, the current version has BM as a small dps increase (in the 10 dps range) on the OH if you have low values of haste (>14%), and equal to berserking if you have high values of haste (>18%).

But (and this is completely subjective), I personally have noted an increase that looms in the range of ~100 dps in raid so far. The big difference seems to be that the sim models BM as a 25-26% uptime, while my raid dps has shown an uptime closer to 28%. I need more data before I can conclude that BM has a differing uptime from the Sim. If it does not, then there would need to be some other explanation (like maybe I just played better last week).

Take these thoughts with a grain of salt please.

[jddogg]

Hmm, what is your haste and ap that you tested this under? (unbuffed of course)

[kudzupo]

I tested a range of haste and AP, used my current gear for the other stats (i might be in my dedicated insanity set though atm).

Haste ranged from 10%-->30%, AP ranged from 4000-5500

[MarcM85]

Would love to see something authoritative on this question...I assume the experts are working on it now. FWIW the best enhance shaman on my server has switched over to BM on OH.

I'm inclined to do it as well if it is even similar DPS to berserking. I do a fair amount of off healing, particularly in our 10 mans, using MW5 chain heals. The add'l haste would give more flexibility with what I use MW5 procs for (more haste = more procs = more options), even if my LB and chain heals are slightly less powerful.

[kudzupo]

Would love to see something authoritative on this question...I assume the experts are working on it now. FWIW the best enhance shaman on my server has switched over to BM on OH.

I'm inclined to do it as well if it is even similar DPS to berserking. I do a fair amount of off healing, particularly in our 10 mans, using MW5 chain heals. The add'l haste would give more flexibility with what I use MW5 procs for (more haste = more procs = more options), even if my LB and chain heals are slightly less powerful.

"We" are working on it. I gave you the best answer I could. Remember, "the experts" are also players .

But, if you are looking for a "OMG EVERYONE GO BM IN OH!?!" that is just not going to happen. Just like everything else for enhance, the answer is looking to be "maybe, use the tools available to see if it is a good idea for you, here is a range where it seems to give a benefit".

[kudzupo]

Update: it does seem the enchant uptime is around 28% on single target fights, versus the ~25% that EnhSim is showing. This could account for the better results we are seeing live. I have put in an issue on EnhSim about it, well see what comes of it

[Almarri]

Black magic is cheaper !

[Deleted]

BM can only be better single target. If the upgrade isn't considerable, i'm sticking with Zerking for some multi-mob pew pew.

[Deleted]

This is where there is a disconnect between myself and the other "coders" and the people using the sim - the "users".

With all the time I spend updating ShockAndAwe, Rawr & Enhsim there is precious little time to run lots of different scenarios testing possible outcomes. This is where the user community comes in. It is really up to you guys to use the tools we provide to answer these questions.

So we WANT you to test things in game and in the sim. Report differences, the sim might need tweaking, report in game behaviours, so we can add that to the sim (eg: we still need data on how Black Bruise weapon works). Test things, try out different ways of doing things, eg: different priorities. Report back - this is VERY important - we need others to verify your results - preferrably report back in http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t82621-e...pdated_thread/ thread.

By helping in this way and using your time to help the Enh shaman community, we can get better data and all learn from the results. I probably rely more on people actually testing things and reporting back than I do on any testing I do myself as I simply don't have the time to do proper dps tests as most of the time I'm on a target dummy its because I'm testing a new feature of ShockAndAwe. I feel that its better my time is spent improving the addon and the sims than trying to test theories. I leave it to you guys to make the breakthrough discoveries such as is BM better on OH?

[Deleted]

Might as well go ahead and ask. Does haste benefit 'Zerking's uptime as it uses PPM mechanics? That would give it an advantage over BM which is ICD.

[kudzupo]

Might as well go ahead and ask. Does haste benefit 'Zerking's uptime as it uses PPM mechanics? That would give it an advantage over BM which is ICD.

Actually, thanks for giving me that thought. I went back through my combat logs and it does indeed seem to have an effect. Berserking has a ~40% uptime on MH for me without BM. However with it, I am getting ranges from 46-60%.

[antifreeze]

I will try this one but I don't know why u stating off-hand usage. I think better leave berserking on off hand for lava lash (I mean extra cooldown hit with off hand might get better chanse of procing?)

[Deleted]

Might as well go ahead and ask. Does haste benefit 'Zerking's uptime as it uses PPM mechanics? That would give it an advantage over BM which is ICD.

Indeed we are seeing a big uptime boost in game to berserking on MH when black magic used on OH. This effect is not reflected or expected at all in either EnhSim or Rawr, and so it is not currently simming correctly. Once we determine why there is this uplift in berserking uptime, and the more of you that can supply test data the better, then we can implement the change.

This would then almost certainly lift Black Magic on OH to be the preferred enchant for OH. Of course the usual caveat applies - your mileage may vary test it for yourself in the sims (once they are updated with this uplift effect).

[Hirork]

This would then almost certainly lift Black Magic on OH to be the preferred enchant for OH. Of course the usual caveat applies - your mileage may vary test it for yourself in the sims (once they are updated with this uplift effect).

I switched my offhand to black magic, here is the log from my ICC25 Raid.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...z03/details/6/