T-10 Bear tank hit rating/gear

[Cheezee]

You were talking about a hunter taking leather from a druid. You neglected to mention it was in a pug heroic run which I don't really care about. Why would you try to redirect the conversation to something that happened in a pug heroic when we were discussing you taking a progression level raid item from a melee dps? And I never said anything about a hunter taking sp gear, I was using myself as an example.

SD is far from useless, but it should have been buffed when Blizz buffed warrior/pally block. The single application part is the worst of it, imo, it should be a stacking buff.

[Auroro]

You were talking about a hunter taking leather from a druid. You neglected to mention it was in a pug heroic run which I don't really care about. Why would you try to redirect the conversation to something that happened in a pug heroic when we were discussing you taking a progression level raid item from a melee dps? And I never said anything about a hunter taking sp gear, I was using myself as an example.

SD is far from useless, but it should have been buffed when Blizz buffed warrior/pally block. The single application part is the worst of it, imo, it should be a stacking buff.

I agree with your idea on SD it need a little more buff.

[xebtria]

Well, you sir are an asshole. Many of the hunter that I know will not MD because they are too damn worry about their DPS meter. Only 5% of all the hunter will MD the tanks. Rogue that i know will ToT the tanks in the first part, then ToT the highest melee dps rest of the time. Yes i have try to beat it in their head but they are DPS Meter freak.

well than 95% of all your hunters, sir, are assholes if they care more about their own dps than about the success of the group/raid. According your logic, I'm an asshole for not gemming offensive stats as a tank because hunters are too selfish to MD the tank? Set tank to focus target, have a general /cast [@focus] Misdirection/tricks macro and pressing that every 30 seconds or one minute or what is no DPS loss AT ALL. You and your hunters/rogues, sir, are more fail than anything I met since the release of those threat-misdirecting-abilities. Honestly, you could set the focus to your DPS and MANUALLY (or maybe with a modifier) to the tank once at the beginning. No tank ever would lose threat if he was boosted accordingly at the beginning of a fight.

Many DPS want their Tank be hit cap so that at the first moment the boss start to attack the tanks, they can burn everything they got. However if you are not hit cap, they need to wait for at least 2 second incase the first move is a miss.

even then, no. There's a neat little thing called taunt. or growl. or hand of reckongning. or whatever.

The item that drop from Valithria, Noose of Malachite, is better than Sepsis. This item will allow the tank to just gem once with hit rating. With this item you get hit rating by 46, defense rating by 60, your dodge rating by 52 which is not bad for a tanking item. With the changes to my list you will get to 241 and one gem hit rating of 20 will put you at hit cap. Unless you do icewalker walker echantment then one 10 hit/15 stam will do.

Icewalker as a tank? you start getting even more funnier... how even CONSIDER this enchant for a tank? stam+RUNSPEED is better even and especially for threat. besides that, you never ever gem hit as a tank. I dunno (because it's early at the morning) if I mentioned it somewhere before, but you better go get your dps be less selfish and dpsmeter-focused than tell every tank not hit/expertise capped an asshole.

Because the tanking set have a low amount of hit rating, we have to be able to reach hit cap so that no miss happen. Many of the adds and bosses in ICC are taunt immune which means we have to deal the first damage as quickly as we can before the dps override the threat of a tank.

no we haven't to be. at least for this wing, no single mob is taunt immune. every other wing we don't know yet, because PTR doesn't count, still everything can change when it goes live. and I doubt, that anything will be taunt immune, because blizzard wants everyone to see all the content, and taunt immune mobs would be way to challenging for 99% of all casual players.

IF you keep having a miss chance, then the fault is you for killing the dps.

no it's not. It's dps' fault, because they were too selfish for their epeen meter. if they die in pugs, their problem. tell them they should take a shot on omen or any other threat display thingy. If they still continue dying due to aggro.... well... learning by dying. a dead dps is no dps. It's the best thing to explain them.

The hunter was going after Rogue/Feral gear where did you get the idea of a hunter going after caster gears. It was a pug heroic dungeon. My raid never use DKP, and we use common sense. If a feral wanted to roll for a boomkin gear or resto gear, they have to wait until resto or boomkin pass. Also Feral will not lose priority on feral gear in the guild, we just do not want to DE the items.

it was only an example (as a feral going after a boonkin/tree item, because cosindering my crap gear back then, rawr told me it would be an update for me). If you didn't get it, you failed once again. Oh, and If your guild uses common sense, you would NEVER EVER get a str-dps-item. even if you have a cat offspec.

[Cheezee]

no we haven't to be. at least for this wing, no single mob is taunt immune. every other wing we don't know yet, because PTR doesn't count, still everything can change when it goes live. and I doubt, that anything will be taunt immune, because blizzard wants everyone to see all the content, and taunt immune mobs would be way to challenging for 99% of all casual players.

Actually, Marrowgar was still taunt immune when we killed him last night on 25 man. Found out the hard way when one of our mages forgot to respec and hit blink instead of his trinket macro which put him inside of Marrowgar after he stopped spinning. Damn near wiped because everybody was laughing so hard.

[Auroro]

no we haven't to be. at least for this wing, no single mob is taunt immune. every other wing we don't know yet, because PTR doesn't count, still everything can change when it goes live. and I doubt, that anything will be taunt immune, because blizzard wants everyone to see all the content, and taunt immune mobs would be way to challenging for 99% of all casual players.

I am guessing you never got the big guy as well. Marrowgar and Deathbound Ward are taunt immune in both Ten man and 25 man, Lady Deathwhisper make your taunt useless when you have your Touch of Insignificance debuff, I have it on me sack 5 time because the Paladin was unable to taunt it off of me, he have 172 hit rating, they kept on missing. Where mine is at 273 i never miss.

You just fail to know your raid dungeon.

[Marvy]

I know people will probably object to it but if you were slightly off the Hit Cap (as the OP sort of is) I don't see the problem in gemming yellow sockets (we get a lot of them these days) with +Hit +Agi gems (Glinting I believe).

[xebtria]

ah that big ones we don't knew where the came from in the first place.. well, I never needed to taunt them. lucky me, eh?
anyways... why makes that debuff from deathwisper taunt useless?
you taunt her, start making aggro. when you have 2 or 3 debuffs (whether you have 3 or 2 tanks), you get it taunted off from you. taunt = instant 100% threat + mobfocus on you. that debuff reduces threat generation. taunt generates 0 threat, it simply puts you on #1 if you aren't already. thats all. So it does not affect your possibility to taunt...

oh, btw, with 273 hit rating you miss aproximately 7.5% of all taunts. IF you don't have glyph of growling (I don't know if you have, but you just staetd 273 hit rating and never miss taunt and this is wrong). while taunt scales with hitrating, it still follows the spellhitcap. which is 17%. you basically need 9% spellhit to never miss taunt if you have that glyph (=8%), and this equals to 237 hit rating (236,07 to be correct).
oh and i'm not going down to your niveau telling you you fail at your class' theorycrafting...
marrowgar is immune? never noticed that. I always thought, I taunted him, maybe ... it was a Hunter pet. At least I saw the animation over his head(s)...

[Cheezee]

ah that big ones we don't knew where the came from in the first place.. well, I never needed to taunt them. lucky me, eh?
anyways... why makes that debuff from deathwisper taunt useless?
you taunt her, start making aggro. when you have 2 or 3 debuffs (whether you have 3 or 2 tanks), you get it taunted off from you. taunt = instant 100% threat + mobfocus on you. that debuff reduces threat generation. taunt generates 0 threat, it simply puts you on #1 if you aren't already. thats all. So it does not affect your possibility to taunt...

The big skeleton guys in the rooms leading up to Marrowgar are activated by invisible traps on the ground. Rogues can see and disarm them so the guys won't activate. They stand in alcoves until someone triggers a trap. At 75 rep a piece we've been killing them everytime.

Taunt only puts you on top of the threat list if it hits. If it misses then it's a wasted GCD. If your OT misses multiple taunts then the debuff will stack to 100% threat generation reduction and then healers and dps can have agro issues.

marrowgar is immune? never noticed that. I always thought, I taunted him, maybe ... it was a Hunter pet. At least I saw the animation over his head(s)...

He's supposed to be tauntable as of yesterday according to Blizzard, but he wasn't when we did the fight last night on 25 man. It may require a server restart to make the change go in. When anyone taunts him the taunt still goes off and gets put on CD, he's just immune to it. Think heroic Faction Champions. Anyway, it shouldn't be an issue next week.

[Selverein]

Marrowgar was indeed immune to taunt til very recently. If your MT died then it'd most likely be a wipe, unless he'd go into Bone Storm shortly thereafter and allow a threat wipe where another tank could pick him back up.

Taunt immunity does not mean that you will not be able to use Growl at all. You will always be able to activate the skill and trigger its cooldown, but it simply will not put you at the top of the threat list if the target is immune. (And yes, you will still see the animation over the target's head.)

Also, just a minor correction:

Taunt only puts you on top of the threat list if it hits. If it misses then it's a wasted GCD.

Growl does not trigger the GCD. Only Challenging Roar does.

I have it on me sack 5 time because the Paladin was unable to taunt it off of me, he have 172 hit rating, they kept on missing. Where mine is at 273 i never miss.

I suspect that Pally either really sucked ass or got very unlucky. Realize that even with 0 Hit Rating and no Growl glyph, you have a 17% chance to miss with Growl. That's still 83% chance of success, so missing even twice in a row would be a freak event. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just saying you seem to be overrating the value of Hit (even though it is high).

[Thefirstdk]

Is the necklace out yet?

No it is not. I just putting the gear that is dropping right now. What happen if everyone but you got all the gear and this necklace drop, This necklace is a good item for tanking until you get that necklace from Valithria.

We have told our hunters and rogues to wait for 2 second before attacking the boss. What if you have a low hit rating, that is alot of miss move that can make the boss skip you and attack the DPS. I have never miss due to have good amount of hit rating.

Umm did you look at the stat of the gears build up. I have done ICC and do so many threat both the pally, warrior, and even DK have problem with me.

Getting too much avoidance is bad when you need rage to do your moves. The only time i have no problem with rage is at a boss fight. We get a huge amount when we get hit by the mobs compare to 5 rage when we dodge unlike warrior get alot from dodge, parry, and block.

As of now, 4.0 will give us our AP from both AGI and STR in bear form, so why would you said that it's is terrible for druid tank. With the blue socket we can gem stamina for it. We will get 20 socket by the end of ICC, that time I will gem all of my red agi, yellow Def/stam, and blue stam.

Valithria's necklace is a subject that can be change in the future. All we know from data mined that it is a good tanking neck item with 48 hit rating. Wowhead does not even have the info on this neck item because it have not been posted as finish. Blizzard even said that ICC is not done yet until after Sindragosa is done. Even Valithria's modal is a placeholder and the rings of Ashen Verdict have no socket bonus to it.

anyone else read this in a style like the poster is Chinese?

[Auroro]

anyone else read this in a style like the poster is Chinese?

Ok, that is enough. I am deaf and it did effect my writing skill. It take me at least three days to write a great essay without any problem.

I suspect that Pally either really sucked ass or got very unlucky. Realize that even with 0 Hit Rating and no Growl glyph, you have a 17% chance to miss with Growl. That's still 83% chance of success, so missing even twice in a row would be a freak event. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just saying you seem to be overrating the value of Hit (even though it is high).

I have never have to hit growl twice. The only time I have a problem was when the boss is immune to taunt due to some idiots put their taunt move in their rotation while fighting the boss. With a good amount of hit rating, your miss chance will be lower and will not hurt you when you need it.

My guild set up a rule for Marrowgar. Stop DPS while WW, and get out of the fire and the boss. Tank follow the boss until he stop.

I have every debuff on Lady and the tank was asking me if I am taunting her alot when I have not touch the button for growl. Same thing happen with the last boss of the first wing. I ask him what his hit rating because taunt is base on it, it was low enough that I have to stop attacking for this tank to grab the boss.

[Cheezee]

I was going to say Eastern Europe. Reading what you wrote reminds me of a friend of mine from Russia. Jerk never brings me vodka when he goes over there.

When we did the fight last night using 3 tanks we would split up when he started his whirl. I went left, another tank went up the middle and the last guy went right. Whoever got him just drug him back to the back wall and met up with the other two. Made the pick up quite a bit easier.

[Auroro]

I was going to say Eastern Europe. Reading what you wrote reminds me of a friend of mine from Russia. Jerk never brings me vodka when he goes over there.

When we did the fight last night using 3 tanks we would split up when he started his whirl. I went left, another tank went up the middle and the last guy went right. Whoever got him just drug him back to the back wall and met up with the other two. Made the pick up quite a bit easier.

I do that for 25 man, i just hope that the healer are watch their tank when this happen.

I was born in good old USA, just have bad writing skill. If I went to Russia, I will buy a couple of Vodka and ship them back for family and friends. Airport does not allows liquid on their plane since some idiot thought he would have gotten away from building a bomb on the plane.