Recent In-Game Fixes - December 2009 - 12/14

[Zagnaphein]

Soon u will see an Arthas nerf before they even add it....This is ridiculous...I dont care if its weekly raid only for some of u.

What's the point of killing the bosses in day 1 with pugs?

My guild took down marrowag with extremly lag and it wasn't a pushover at all..like the rest of instance wasn't a faceroll to begin with....I dont get some of u...

Its the freaking last dungeon of WOTLK...It's what we have all been waiting for u...And now u say its good they nerf it?

I remember scrubguild's reaching M'uru after the nerf...But before everyone couldn't get past Felmyst...

No i am sorry but i dont care if ur casual/noob/scrub/pug players cant get their emblems of frost....Once i get myself to clear the dungeon allongside with the *Considered pro guilds* then i will accept all the above to have a chance see the inner areas of Icecrown Citadel...

Give back the days of attument..When beeing in places like BT Or SSC was serious business...

Not having every joke wearing T7/T8/T9/T10 in different versions just because he does heroics...

Yes i am an arsehole...but i cant stand the nerfs cause of some kids who cant play more then 1-2 days beeing allowed to even step foot beyond Icecrown trash...

[Gilian]

Ok so on the marrowgar nerf I'm sorry I have to say that while it wasn't necessary to actually do it,
since plenty of guilds got it done, but the how it got done presented some issues.

In my opinion a 10 man should be 2 tanks, 2 heals, and 6 dps. That's just the way it should be.
You shouldn't have to take 3 healers to a 10 man, yea sure you can drag the fights out and get it done that way,
but you shouldn't have to.

Now this fight can be 2 healed. We 2 healed the whole thing on 10 this week, but this fight imparticular really sucked.
We pally/druid healed it and with as much melee damage as the tanks are taking, if the pally gets spiked you are kinda screwed.
You can still do it if your geared out but by the end of that fight i was sweating bullets on the edge of my seat and well damn near out of mana even with a my cooldowns, a pot, and a innervate.

With the gear lvl of my guild, the other healers and myself this should not have been as intense as it was, I can understand it
needing to be nerfed for people in 232 gear.

A 10 man guild should be able to progress without ever setting foot inside a 25 man for gear, and one reg 10 man to the next (reg 10 Toc - reg 10 ICC) should be compleatly possible.

Just My Opinion.

links to our healers for comparisons
me - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...gar&n=Tantilus
druid - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Khadgar&n=Unum

I would like to hear others thoughts, preferably other higher end raid healers, did you 2 heal or 3 heal on this fight last week, and
what were your thoughts on damage output.

Karazhan was always done with 3 healers. That's how it was supposed to be. It was too hard with the gear level you had to do it with only 2 healers. Only when we were overgeared and had more experience we did it with 2 healers.
I really don't understand where you got the "we shouldn't have to bring 3 healers to a 10 man raid" from. If you go in with 2 healers and you wipe because your tank dies from "too much damage" (actually not enough heals) then you should play it safe and bring 3 healers. If you have problems with the enrage timer with 3 healers (which you shouldn't have) then you need to find better dps or find a tactic that works with 2 healers.

p.s. I read you can position your MT healer in melee range of marrowgar so he doesn't get spiked.

And also, you can progress from toc10 normal to icc10 normal. That's the normal path, which is doable. The higher ilvl gear just makes it easier.

[Sellest]

Marrowgar was way too hard on normal mode to be first boss of 10 man instance. Nerf is justified and people who disagree are either blind or totaly overgeared whole instance. 10 mans are meant to be cleared by majority of playerbase. Damage was too spiky and too high. Gunship and Lady were walk in park compared to Marrowgar.

[Norome]

p.s. I read you can position your MT healer in melee range of marrowgar so he doesn't get spiked.

no. melee get spiked as well.

[Manoos]

I know normal modes are meant to be 'for the casuals to see content' but I myself am in a casual guild an have to admit at being VERY disapointed at being able to one shot each boss...we even made the effort to avoid PTR information and tactics...

I call you out on this. It is certainly possible to one shot the first four bosses in IC. And it is certainly possible to down them without reading/watching the tactics first. But not both at the same time. So you are either lying or do not know what "one shot" really stands for.

With respect to Marrowgar 10man, I can understand the nerf. It was not so much hard as annoying due to certain randomness a combination of saberlash and melee hit introduced into the fight. It is more about making the curve smoother than about making everything "easy mode".

[Zagnaphein]

Marrowgar was way too hard on normal mode to be first boss of 10 man instance. Nerf is justified and people who disagree are either blind or totaly overgeared whole instance. 10 mans are meant to be cleared by majority of playerbase. Damage was too spiky and too high. Gunship and Lady were walk in park compared to Marrowgar.

I am a person who worked his ass to get in ICC expecting it since the start of the expansion and many more...I Dont wanna be in the same fate with people who Cant get past faction champions...

10 man was never intended to be the way u say cause the first 10 mas were 10 mans like Zul Aman and Karazhan...Blizzard whole idea of 10 mans iin this expansion was made just for the casuals to raid and give them equall stuff as the hardcore...

Blizzard knew that if they would keep up with Sunwell raids people would leave it cause its Hard....Too bad for us though people who are HC and work their ass to down bosses beeing mocked(Cause that's what i think posts like ur's are) by casuals..

[Coe]

Are we playing the same game? Not trying to offend you, but we killed Marrowgar on the ... 7th try, I guess, with two 245-ish tanks around 50k HP buffed (Paladin and Warrior), still a pretty hard one, having wiped at 1 or 2 percent a few times.

Did your tanks stack armor for this fight? Did they move together all the time? Were they near the boss when he finished whirl? Did your healers do the job? You don't need all 245 gear and 50k hp for this fight, it looks like something else was your problem

[hvidgaard]

I'm a little ambivialent with the Marrowgar nerf. While it certainly seemed very spiky, my 10man healing team (Druid, Disc Priest, and me, Shaman) managed fairly okay. I'm 100% certain that RNG will go against us and wipe, but it was still very doable with some skill. However, I read right and left about 10man guild that couldn't do it, all while we (with an average gear level just below 232) 1-shot it without reading up on tactics.

What made us successful, was definitly our tanks keeping an eye on their Combat log, and noticed the Saber Lash very quickly and getting the other tank in posistion. After every WW we blew a tank cooldown while the other tank got in. This fight is (or was) about utilizing everything your raid had at your disposal - stay out of the fire - switch target - stop dps after the WW. A lot of things that raiders are known to have a hard time at. I'm sure that trust in my fellow healers helped as well. Try to cross heal and someone will die. If our druid hadn't been able to handle the raid we would have wiped. If the priest and me had switched our attention from the tanks just 2 sec, they would probably die.

Overall I enjoyed being challenged on my 2 weekly raidnights, and without the nerf, I'm sure Marrowgar would be trivial when the tanks geared up - but that doesn't matter anymore.

[Maerad]

Marrow made way too much dmg ...

We tried him with our 10 team, all around lvl 230 (highest 235 ilvl) - Heals were Dudu, Priest and Shaman.

After 5-6 tries we got him ... and it was close. Not because the ppl couln'd move out of the fire, it was because our tanks were sometimes nearly one-shoted. The DMG was nearly the same like in 25 ...


I don't have a problem with hard encounters, but this was just stupid for the first boss. I mean, with ilvl 230 gear you didn't depend on your skill, you depended on luck, that the tanks get him right and you are in range and not near a fire ...

After this we did him with our 240+ Alts ... piece of cake, no problems. Well, encounter overequipping ftw <3

[Azie]

"Chains of Ice is no longer limited to a single target. In addition, when Chains of Ice is used on a snare immune target with Endless Winter talented, it will once again apply Frost Fever. "

Everlasting is typo on main page.

[Gilian]

I don't have a problem with hard encounters, but this was just stupid for the first boss. I mean, with ilvl 230 gear you didn't depend on your skill, you depended on luck, that the tanks get him right and you are in range and not near a fire ...

Because tanking him properly and staying in range as a healer is all about luck. Right...

[timb111]

Marrow made way too much dmg ...

We tried him with our 10 team, all around lvl 230 (highest 235 ilvl) - Heals were Dudu, Priest and Shaman.

After 5-6 tries we got him ... and it was close. Not because the ppl couln'd move out of the fire, it was because our tanks were sometimes nearly one-shoted. The DMG was nearly the same like in 25 ...

Would it kill you to farm for a bit of gold and buy your tanks some crafted/boe 245 gear? We did it on alts, me tanking on my paladin with an Ilvl 200 shield, and we got him down after a few goes. I must say I didnt think it needed a nerf and I didn't find myself taking too much damage.

A 10 man guild should be able to progress without ever setting foot inside a 25 man for gear, and one reg 10 man to the next (reg 10 Toc - reg 10 ICC) should be compleatly possible.

You are aware that 245 gear is available for tokens which you get from 10 mans (and from the daily heroic)?

[NotValidAnymore]

The issue with you hardcore people is that you think it's skill when you have good luck. It's not. Let me take some examples on Marrowgar here:

Tanks are taking hits in a row and your MT-healer gets spiked? You're screwed.
Marrowgar comes back from his whirlwind-phase and one of the tanks get two-shot because the other is lagging or otherwise isn't having buttsecks with each other? You're screwed.
Heck, if you're pulling the boss, and a Warrior/Druid tank charges into the boss without the other being close? You're screwed.

Oh, and you gotta love the guy who said he was a 50k health tank with 80% avoidance or something. Yeah, sure, the boss is easy, if you completely overgear the instance. GG.

[Deleted]

Blizz sorry mates but you fail bigtime on "bring the player not the class".

Classes setup in raids were fine in the whole historie of WoW...the only exuse you bring up for the last year is "remember Sunwell shaman stacking?". It was 1 raid that had that problem, and even there you could clear everything without stacking a class if you played well enough.

If you wan't to support your idea why all classes should be able to tank/heal/dps anything like it is now, you could atleast try to think of another reason than 1 raid where it was a problem. Also you base your fact tht class stacking was needed on the top 100 guilds ore wathever who were fighting to be number 1 clearing content...the 5000 other guilds who raided normal and took normal setup to raids are being held behind scenes right?

Well, i guess we will see Sunwell brought up again in Cataclysm somewhere aswell..

[Calaba]

You are aware that 245 gear is available for tokens which you get from 10 mans (and from the daily heroic)?

Erm.... 245 gear is available from farming 5-mans now. The daily heroic provides emblems of frost now. There's no excuse not to have this gear on a tank.

[hvidgaard]

The issue with you hardcore people is that you think it's skill when you have good luck. It's not. Let me take some examples on Marrowgar here:

Tanks are taking hits in a row and your MT-healer gets spiked? You're screwed.
Marrowgar comes back from his whirlwind-phase and one of the tanks get two-shot because the other is lagging or otherwise isn't having buttsecks with each other? You're screwed.
Heck, if you're pulling the boss, and a Warrior/Druid tank charges into the boss without the other being close? You're screwed.

Oh, and you gotta love the guy who said he was a 50k health tank with 80% avoidance or something. Yeah, sure, the boss is easy, if you completely overgear the instance. GG.

Except you're supposed to have 2 healers on the tanks, and any healer should be able so manage until the 2nd tank healer is out. And tank cooldowns are there to be used you know, like after WW or at the pull. Anyway, it was hard, but at least I didn't find it that hard.

[Calaba]

The issue with you hardcore people is that you think it's skill when you have good luck. It's not. Let me take some examples on Marrowgar here:

Tanks are taking hits in a row and your MT-healer gets spiked? You're screwed.
Marrowgar comes back from his whirlwind-phase and one of the tanks get two-shot because the other is lagging or otherwise isn't having buttsecks with each other? You're screwed.
Heck, if you're pulling the boss, and a Warrior/Druid tank charges into the boss without the other being close? You're screwed.

Hahahaha ermmm... no.

Healer gets spiked => tank cooldowns / health pots are there for a reason.
Even the most pro guilds get lag sometimes. But take your lag to Archimonde and see how you do. This doesn't fall into the category of "luck" after a while. After a while it's just Fail, and someone needs to fix their connection. Especially if it's a tank with lag, you need to fix that sooner rather than later.
And the last is just FAIL. Seriously. A tank changing off is NOT luck.

[anaalius]

hope the warlock change actually helps !

[smilox]

Affliction is getting a nerf I guess. Shadow bolt refreshing corruption is an horrible idea. now it wont get any ticks in and wont get to even roll a bit between refresh timers like intended. The bug was not the nerf this is. Guess its back to destro. Just when this spec became viable again...

Just like haunt, shadow bolt doesn't reapply corruption, but instead extends it's duration. So refreshing it more often does not affect corruptions dps at all.

Affliction execute will still suck without drain soul also doing this :/

[dvstec]

Druids will now be able to shapeshift out of a spell-reflected Entangling Roots spell.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO