Offensive utility for Retribution

[grimmhammer]

To make the spec more appealing (than say, prot) as a DPS spec in arena, Retribution really needs some type of offensive utility.

The challenge in implementing this however, is to keep Retribution's unique feel by the introduction of new mechanics without making them too powerful.

Many Paladins suggest a form of mana spell cost increase as a unique idea to counter healers with the goal being more reason to bring Retribution into the arena.

Similarly I've come up with a spell that would function as a mana drain unique to Retribution.

Swift Retribution would be rolled into sanctified Retribution, and in it's place a 1-point PvP talent would be added.

Judgment of Zeal

Places a Judgment on the target causing all physical and bleed damage dealt to also drain mana = to
(damage dealt*(1/[MaxHP]))*2500. Drains caused by the Paladin will also restore 100% of the mana drained to the Paladin. Refer to individual seals for damage effects. Only one Judgment may be active per Paladin.

(The formula looks absurd with the "*2500", but what it is supposed to represent is % of max HP lost multiplied by 25, so it's really ((% of max HP lost as a decimal) *100), *25, but that's just redundant.)

The idea is to give Paladins a mana drain that is kept very weak in Raids and 1v1 encounters (still relevant to non-healers in 1v1 though!), but synergizes beautifully with physical damage dealing partners in arenas (classes that Paladins already mesh well with) to make for a threatening effect on healers that isn't yet another Interrupt or Mortal Strike effect.

Here is some hard numbers on the effect:

[On a target with 20000 HP]

[Paladin crits for 3000 with Divine Storm.]


(damage dealt*(1/[MaxHP]))*2500. --> (3000*(1/[20000]))*2500 --> (3000*(.00005))*2500 -->

(.15)*2500 --> 375

The number at the end of course doesn't seem very high at all, but when combined with a rogue partner or a Warrior partner, both dealing lots of physical attacks, it will most certainly add up.

As far as aesthetics go, it would probably be a Judgment with a purple icon.

[Raiss]

Insane burst and improved freedom is more than enough, imo. Pvp doesnt need more mana drains. Actually, mana drains are one of the worse pvp mechanics and blizzard wants to avoid it.

[Ascal]

]
As far as aesthetics go, it would probably be a Judgment with a purple icon.

Make it pink and I'm sold.

I like the idea but IMHO ret does currently not need any sort of offensive utility buff.

[jenseits]

Insane burst and improved freedom is more than enough, imo. Pvp doesnt need more mana drains. Actually, mana drains are one of the worse pvp mechanics and blizzard wants to avoid it.

Should put a little * next to insane burst as that only pertains to ppl sub 300 resil. No that will not be enough to effectively bring people to ret because that dmg can be done by just about any other dps spec and they also get much of the utility they need to be effective. Snd before you try to bring up buffs and heals i will bring up how those are also brought by the other pld specs and they are also more effective in their field than ret is at dps.

THIS is the problem.

It wouldn't make ret OP just to have an interrupt or some form of gap closer that doesn't rely on either holding the W key or both mouse buttons. In fact these could help PVE as well as it would allow smart plds to keep stacks of vengence up on bosses in encounters that would make it otherwise impossible.

[Raiss]

Should put a little * next to insane burst as that only pertains to ppl sub 300 resil. No that will not be enough to effectively bring people to ret because that dmg can be done by just about any other dps spec and they also get much of the utility they need to be effective. Snd before you try to bring up buffs and heals i will bring up how those are also brought by the other pld specs and they are also more effective in their field than ret is at dps.

THIS is the problem.

It wouldn't make ret OP just to have an interrupt or some form of gap closer that doesn't rely on either holding the W key or both mouse buttons. In fact these could help PVE as well as it would allow smart plds to keep stacks of vengence up on bosses in encounters that would make it otherwise impossible.

I have 1100 resil. A ret paladin can burn more than 15k HP within 2 global cooldowns. That is burst.

Ret is fine, really. I may not be as overpowered as some other classes, but ret is fine. The only real issue is that pret is stronger than ret. Prot is overpowered, and now its time to ret replaced by it.

[Veliane]

I have 1100 resil. A ret paladin can burn more than 15k HP within 2 global cooldowns. That is burst.

That is, by a fact, impossible.

[Prentice]

I have 1100 resil. A ret paladin can burn more than 15k HP within 2 global cooldowns. That is burst.

Ret is fine, really. I may not be as overpowered as some other classes, but ret is fine. The only real issue is that pret is stronger than ret. Prot is overpowered, and now its time to ret replaced by it.

You are full of crap, were high when it happened, or can't probably identify what a paladin looks like. Paladins do not cast Immolate, Conflagrate, or Chaos Bolt. Please learn to probably identify different classes in WoW or stop playing while stoned.

[Raiss]

You are full of crap, were high when it happened, or can't probably identify what a paladin looks like. Paladins do not cast Immolate, Conflagrate, or Chaos Bolt. Please learn to probably identify different classes in WoW or stop playing while stoned.

Warlocks are broken. As a said, there are classes overpowered, destro warlock beeing one of them.

Please face a restodruid/platedps/ret at 2500+. You will see what does burst means. If you think ret dmg is too low, check this http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....g&gid=22567222 (last game I lost against a ret paladin, my comp is strong against melees teams). As you can see, ret did more dmg than the unholy DK, and more dmg than my arms warrior (that was freedom and dispells on him full time)

The only thing ret paladins need is more defensive cooldowns. Bubble is a joke, Hand of Sacrifice and Divine Protection can also be dispelled. Ret is always the main target, and they can do nothing about it. And, if there are few teams running ret, is because you can't have both a holy and a ret at the same team. Or, if you check arenajunkies, some paladins are going pret, which is also overpowered.

[Kairu]

Warlocks are broken. As a said, there are classes overpowered, destro warlock beeing one of them.

Please face a restodruid/platedps/ret at 2500+. You will see what does burst means. If you think ret dmg is too low, check this http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....g&gid=22567222 (last game I lost against a ret paladin, my comp is strong against melees teams). As you can see, ret did more dmg than the unholy DK, and more dmg than my arms warrior (that was freedom and dispells on him full time)

The only thing ret paladins need is more defensive cooldowns. Bubble is a joke, Hand of Sacrifice and Divine Protection can also be dispelled. Ret is always the main target, and they can do nothing about it. And, if there are few teams running ret, is because you can't have both a holy and a ret at the same team. Or, if you check arenajunkies, some paladins are going pret, which is also overpowered.

Vs sacred cleansing, you just take a crap on death knight dps, thats why he is so low. And Generally, your warrior can be considered to be doing MUCH more damage than that, as he is bringing the mortal strike debuff (You do more damage than said, by preventing heals) Not to mention that the ret and the arms warrior have such a little difference in damage done, MS easily makes up for the damage difference between the two.

And regardless, you did NOT get burst for 15k in two GCDs by the ret alone. That is BS.

[KhameleonN]

You are full of crap, were high when it happened, or can't probably identify what a paladin looks like. Paladins do not cast Immolate, Conflagrate, or Chaos Bolt. Please learn to probably identify different classes in WoW or stop playing while stoned.

I take offense to that sir, I play competently yet stoned all the time.

[KingKrab]

Warlocks are broken. As a said, there are classes overpowered, destro warlock beeing one of them.

Please face a restodruid/platedps/ret at 2500+. You will see what does burst means. If you think ret dmg is too low, check this http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....g&gid=22567222 (last game I lost against a ret paladin, my comp is strong against melees teams). As you can see, ret did more dmg than the unholy DK, and more dmg than my arms warrior (that was freedom and dispells on him full time)

The only thing ret paladins need is more defensive cooldowns. Bubble is a joke, Hand of Sacrifice and Divine Protection can also be dispelled. Ret is always the main target, and they can do nothing about it. And, if there are few teams running ret, is because you can't have both a holy and a ret at the same team. Or, if you check arenajunkies, some paladins are going pret, which is also overpowered.

1. Your 2270 rated, not 2500
2. The pally uses grim toll.
3. GRIM TOLL

[Tigercat]

Once upon a time....

NO.

The end.

[Xorious]

1. Your 2270 rated, not 2500
2. The pally uses grim toll.
3. GRIM TOLL

1. Did he say he had 2500 rating? NO
2. Do we care, was the subject 'Rate my trinket please?', NO
3. I CAN DO DOUBLE SUBJECTS ABOUT NUFING TOO! DDDDDDDDDDD

[Ronark]

1. Did he say he had 2500 rating? NO
2. Do we care, was the subject 'Rate my trinket please?', NO
3. I CAN DO DOUBLE SUBJECTS ABOUT NUFING TOO! DDDDDDDDDDD

He did say 2500+.

Also, since the Ret Paladin had a super inferior trinket, it shows that he is undergeared, leading to the conclusion that the poster wasn't brought down in 2 seconds by 1 person.

[Raiss]

He did say 2500+.

Also, since the Ret Paladin had a super inferior trinket, it shows that he is undergeared, leading to the conclusion that the poster wasn't brought down in 2 seconds by 1 person.

2500+ mmr, his team, not mine

if you can't tell the diference it's not me fault

and i never said he downed me byhimself in 2 seconds. I said ret paladins can do insane burst. Once again, if you can't tell the diference. 15k dmg =/= killing someone. Actually, any serious pvper will have more than 30k hp with 3s buffs. People really should start reading before flaming.

that ret paladins uses a grimtoll and still he has 300 more rating than you. (kingkrab)

I just think it's really fun when someone that doesn't play arena complains that his class his weak at pvp. I mean, how could he know? He probably tried to kill a resto druid at WSG, got cycloned and started a new thread complaning how ret paladins are bad for pvp.

Vs sacred cleansing, you just take a crap on death knight dps, thats why he is so low. And Generally, your warrior can be considered to be doing MUCH more damage than that, as he is bringing the mortal strike debuff (You do more damage than said, by preventing heals) Not to mention that the ret and the arms warrior have such a little difference in damage done, MS easily makes up for the damage difference between the two.

And regardless, you did NOT get burst for 15k in two GCDs by the ret alone. That is BS.

The main point of a two healer team is to make the arms warrior free to dps. of course he will have a high dmg done, he is got freedom and two magic dispellers. and you clearly don't understand the what a DK is doing on a 3s melee cleave

[Prentice]

Warlocks are broken. As a said, there are classes overpowered, destro warlock beeing one of them.

Please face a restodruid/platedps/ret at 2500+. You will see what does burst means. If you think ret dmg is too low, check this http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....g&gid=22567222 (last game I lost against a ret paladin, my comp is strong against melees teams). As you can see, ret did more dmg than the unholy DK, and more dmg than my arms warrior (that was freedom and dispells on him full time)

The only thing ret paladins need is more defensive cooldowns. Bubble is a joke, Hand of Sacrifice and Divine Protection can also be dispelled. Ret is always the main target, and they can do nothing about it. And, if there are few teams running ret, is because you can't have both a holy and a ret at the same team. Or, if you check arenajunkies, some paladins are going pret, which is also overpowered.

The fact is you said a ret pally can do 15k damage in 2 globals. Against a target of 1100 resil that is not possible. I could care less what his trinket was. He could be equipping Death's Choice and heroic Death's Choice. He could have both proc and have wings up. He isn't hitting anyone for 15k in 2 globals. Don't exaggerate or you will be called out.

[Alenko]

Warlocks are broken. As a said, there are classes overpowered, destro warlock beeing one of them.

Please face a restodruid/platedps/ret at 2500+. You will see what does burst means. If you think ret dmg is too low, check this http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....g&gid=22567222 (last game I lost against a ret paladin, my comp is strong against melees teams). As you can see, ret did more dmg than the unholy DK, and more dmg than my arms warrior (that was freedom and dispells on him full time)

The only thing ret paladins need is more defensive cooldowns. Bubble is a joke, Hand of Sacrifice and Divine Protection can also be dispelled. Ret is always the main target, and they can do nothing about it. And, if there are few teams running ret, is because you can't have both a holy and a ret at the same team. Or, if you check arenajunkies, some paladins are going pret, which is also overpowered.

are you SERIOUSLY complaining about rets dmg output being op when an arms warr got out dmged by 6k dmg? 6000 dmg, thats like one execute crit. also your warr took 21k more dmg than the ret pally did. if you want to do well in threes with a warr and a healing pally, do prot warr mm hunter holy pally (as in holy not prot)

[Galith]

At least they are just wanting a mana burn instead of an MS effect again.

[Raiss]

are you SERIOUSLY complaining about rets dmg output being op when an arms warr got out dmged by 6k dmg? 6000 dmg, thats like one execute crit. also your warr took 21k more dmg than the ret pally did. if you want to do well in threes with a warr and a healing pally, do prot warr mm hunter holy pally (as in holy not prot)

translate please?

[Skiball]

Insane burst and improved freedom is more than enough, imo. Pvp doesnt need more mana drains. Actually, mana drains are one of the worse pvp mechanics and blizzard wants to avoid it.

True, but your referring to BC ret, burst died at the launch of wrath. Even in my full heroic TOGC ret gear with wings popped the resto druid just laughs as his health goes back up while he is HOJed.

I don't mind having no offensive utility or interrupts, as long we had burst. That is the trade off. But as long as they keep ret burst as nerfed as it is, there needs to be an offensive utility ability like an interrupt or distance closing ability. Burst or offensive utility, dosen't matter to me, but ret had to have one. And no, ONE 6 second stun that can be trinketed is not offensive utility. kek