Gearscore (long, you've been warned, dont bitch)

[Texco]

brrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooooooooooo

I'm guessing you've misread my post that you quoted

[draticus]

My issue with Gearscore is sometimes the scores are inaccurate and/or do not reflect the actual power of your items. Let me give you a very specific example. I got this the other day from the Triumph vendor in Dala:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47715 (item level 245, gearscore 347)

Up until then, I had been wearing Valorous Frostfire Shoulders:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40419 (item level 213, gear score 261)

Both shoulders were enchanted and socketed with the best available enchants and sockets. However, when I went to test out the change in DPS from upgrading my shoulders, I found that I had a zero if not negative gain to DPS. Turns out the 4 piece set bonus due from my Frostfire gear offset the upgrade entirely if not more, and I will need to replace my shoulders, legs, chest, AND hands simultaneously in order to see a significant DPS boost! Bottom line is, when I walk around Dalaran, I wear my level 245 shoulders to boost my gear score. When I get into a group, I put on my Naxx 10 shoulders again.

Now, if Gearscore were really smart, it would look at all your other items relative to each other, take into account set bonuses, enchants, gems, spec, etc. Then we might have some kind of accurate reflection of the potential power that a player's gear gives him.

There's only a problem here if you were trying to use gearscore as an E-peen measurement and actually care about an 80 point difference in a score measured in the thousands. If a person has a 4.5k gearscore and equips a piece of gear like yours that increases their gearscore to 4.6k but has little effect on DPS that doesn't break the system. Gearscore still tells me their gear is good enough to run ToC and it is, regardless of losing that set bonus. Its not like someone can have a 3.5k gearscore and then equip 4.5k gear and have their dps go down. Unless they're using spell power gear as a feral cat but gearscore shows me their gear so if I don't know spell gear is bad for melee thats on me, not gearscore.

[Karnadas]

I've seen rogues in full t8 outdps rogues in full t9 due to set bonuses. Latency also affects things.

Oh and what about DMC:Greatness? AWESOME trinket for many, but ilevel 200! Other things like that, too, will affect gearscore, even if upping it would be a dps decrease.

The ONLY good reason I've found for gearscore so far was using it on a tank as a dps to see how light i have to take aggro, or on a healer as my tank so i know how fast and how many mobs I can pull for them to keep me up.

[draticus]

All this guy is basically saying is he'd rather take the stranger in purples than the stranger in greens. Its a logical arguement.

Thats great mate. You hav a little addon that tells u the 'score' of their gear, no matter if the gear itself is shit or not, or conducive to their role (i/e dps in mp5 gear, hunters wearing 245 spell hit gear etc).

The main problem is:

You need to live in a Utopian world where people dont ask for a gearscore higher than the raid your attempting.

People are dumb, lazy, and generally cunts. 99% of the people who require a gearscore check before inviting to raid:

a) dont know enough about classes in the game and therefore should not be leading a raid
b) have shit gear themselves and want to rely on others to be boosted
c) Are not confident in their own abilities to lead a raid regardless of 30% of the raids gear level possibly being undergeared.
d) cba to inspect people after the first round of trash and checking recount to see if people are just slacking, or are in greens, or are just shit.
e) all of the above.

Addons are great, theyre supposed to minimise time spent on many things. Only prob is this one is shit because there are so many variables that this particualr addon does not take into account. Thus making it shit, and a shit way to form your raids.

Saying that its a shit way to form raids because it doesn't work when its used wrong is silly. It shows you their actual gear. You can actually look at it and if you don't know that melee arent' supposed to be wearing spell gear you're worthless, not the addon. And thats all its supposed to do. It lets you know if they have the right level of gear for the content. Anything you do to determine skill after that point can still be done after using gearscore to weed out the people that flat out dont belong.

And you dont need to live in a Utopian world. You just have to use it youself, correctly. But then dont let anyone know you used it to look at their gear. If they ask you have to lie and say you armoried them cause that's ok but gearscore is a sin.

[Weena2]

Rock up in full relentless, almost 5.4k GS sup?

i dont think a worse addon exists tbh

[draticus]

I've seen rogues in full t8 outdps rogues in full t9 due to set bonuses. Latency also affects things.

Oh and what about DMC:Greatness? AWESOME trinket for many, but ilevel 200! Other things like that, too, will affect gearscore, even if upping it would be a dps decrease.

Whats your point? Sounds like you're measuring E-peen instead of suitability of gear for content. The DMC card isnt' the difference between a 3.5k gearscore and a 4.5k gearscore. Its the difference between a 4.45k gearscore and a 4.5k gearscore. And since gearscore shows you that they have the DMC card you can even take that into account. Gearscore doesn't tell you how much dps they will do. It tells you how much they CAN do.

[Texco]

Rock up in full relentless, almost 5.4k GS sup?

i dont think a worse addon exists tbh

Then get inspected and declined, sup?

I don't think some people can see how people can use this addon properly tbh

[danawhitaker]

Anyone who has been 80 for at least 2-3 weeks should have a gearscore of at least 4000 unless they are lazy. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...sera&n=Lythria is my DK. I have zero raid loot. My GS is like 4780. You dont have to raid to have a decent score. All that "must have 5k+ score" is just bad people wanting to get carried by good people who are geared.

Why is the assumption that people are *lazy* if they can't chain-run heroics like a heroin addict? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be lazy in WoW, I was busy watching my daughter while you got up, ate some cereal at the computer, and proceeded to chain run heroics for the next 12 hours only taking bio breaks and running to the door to get your pizza. Of course you'd have about 600 triumph badges by the time you finished with that as well as some decent loot. I can run at most one, two instances a night if I'm lucky after my daughter is asleep. Raiding is almost completely out of the question, with the exception of the new raid weekly quest or late night stuff my guild tries to throw together. My gear score is about 4700, which I think is pretty decent for never having set foot in TOC 10 or 25 in any variant or anything in Ulduar except for three bosses once.

I use the gearscore addon, but I use it mostly for vent fodder. A few of the people I do run heroics with at night and I run it, and we like to check the gearscore of the people we're running with. We've never asked anyone to leave over that though, providing the group isn't wiping. I'd much rather groupkick the jerkoffs who chainpull without checking to see if the healer has mana or the people who refuse to loot because they're too lazy or the groups that won't/can't rez someone who dies and then won't wait for them to get back from their corpse run before pulling the next boss (making sure to leave trash so the person almost dies again trying to get back too). Or the tanks who refuse to mark stuff and then get mad when people can't magically divine which of the six mobs he's focusing aggro on during a pull. You see my point. Skill matters. *Everyone* is an idiot when it comes to a group, as a baseline. Gear is way down my list in terms of whether I'd invite someone compared to my assessment of how big of a nimrod they are.

I'll run with just about anyone short of a complete nimrod, whether they're in greens/blues or purples, unless it's wiping the group. I've encountered too many competent players in purples who are complete morons when it comes to their prescribed role in an instance or raid. Gearscore is a good snapshot, but I usually still go check them out on wow-heroes, which has an interface I find more inviting. I'd take my chances with a green/blue equipped person with full gems/enchants than someone in epics who is missing enchants/gems or has completely the wrong ones.

I don't complain about people using Gearscore, it's a handy tool but it should be taken with, ultimately, a grain of salt. I just bristle at being called lazy because I can't spend all evening running stuff and I might be slower to gear up (in theory, I've been 80 now for a long time and am only missing a few pieces from my pre-raid BIS list).

[draticus]

Rock up in full relentless, almost 5.4k GS sup?

i dont think a worse addon exists tbh

But gearscore shows me you're in pvp gear. So whats the point? Oh wait, you're arguing that gearscore can't be useful when used right because it fails if its used wrong.

Brilliant.

[Gaxar]

Like i said mate, the problem with gearscore is not its potential. its its use.

You seem like a decent bloke, who knows the difference between a suitably geared toon and retard.

sadly you are 0.01% of the people who usually use this addon to form raids.

The ONLY times i have seen gearscore used is by people who are either shit players, or badly geared and want to be carried, or by those that want to trivialise the instance by such a large margin that they will only accept 245 geared players for sub 245 instances.

hence where the problem lies and why, sadly for people like you, this is largely a shit addon to use to form a raid.

[Karnadas]

Whats your point? Sounds like you're measuring E-peen instead of suitability of gear for content. The DMC card isnt' the difference between a 3.5k gearscore and a 4.5k gearscore. Its the difference between a 4.45k gearscore and a 4.5k gearscore. And since gearscore shows you that they have the DMC card you can even take that into account. Gearscore doesn't tell you how much dps they will do. It tells you how much they CAN do.

Some rogues purposely stay in t8 because of the set bonuses which allow them to do more than t9 would. That's my point. If you could pick a rogue in t9 or one in t8 you'd probably pick t9, even if the one in t8 would do more.

Be less defensive imo.

[draticus]

Why is the assumption that people are *lazy* if they can't chain-run heroics like a heroin addict? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be lazy in WoW, I was busy watching my daughter while you got up, ate some cereal at the computer, and proceeded to chain run heroics for the next 12 hours only taking bio breaks and running to the door to get your pizza. Of course you'd have about 600 triumph badges by the time you finished with that as well as some decent loot. I can run at most one, two instances a night if I'm lucky after my daughter is asleep. Raiding is almost completely out of the question, with the exception of the new raid weekly quest or late night stuff my guild tries to throw together. My gear score is about 4700, which I think is pretty decent for never having set foot in TOC 10 or 25 in any variant or anything in Ulduar except for three bosses once.

I use the gearscore addon, but I use it mostly for vent fodder. A few of the people I do run heroics with at night and I run it, and we like to check the gearscore of the people we're running with. We've never asked anyone to leave over that though, providing the group isn't wiping. I'd much rather groupkick the jerkoffs who chainpull without checking to see if the healer has mana or the people who refuse to loot because they're too lazy or the groups that won't/can't rez someone who dies and then won't wait for them to get back from their corpse run before pulling the next boss (making sure to leave trash so the person almost dies again trying to get back too). Or the tanks who refuse to mark stuff and then get mad when people can't magically divine which of the six mobs he's focusing aggro on during a pull. You see my point. Skill matters. *Everyone* is an idiot when it comes to a group, as a baseline. Gear is way down my list in terms of whether I'd invite someone compared to my assessment of how big of a nimrod they are.

I'll run with just about anyone short of a complete nimrod, whether they're in greens/blues or purples, unless it's wiping the group. I've encountered too many competent players in purples who are complete morons when it comes to their prescribed role in an instance or raid. Gearscore is a good snapshot, but I usually still go check them out on wow-heroes, which has an interface I find more inviting. I'd take my chances with a green/blue equipped person with full gems/enchants than someone in epics who is missing enchants/gems or has completely the wrong ones.

I don't complain about people using Gearscore, it's a handy tool but it should be taken with, ultimately, a grain of salt. I just bristle at being called lazy because I can't spend all evening running stuff and I might be slower to gear up (in theory, I've been 80 now for a long time and am only missing a few pieces from my pre-raid BIS list).

But your GS is good enough to run anything in the game. If you were in blues trying to get into ICC we'd be calling you lazy. 4k is the number he mentioned. You're 4.7k. Huge difference.

Personally I look for at least 4k for ToC25 and 4.5 for ICC. Anything less and it doesn't really matter how good you are, you dont belong and can't contribute as much as if you bothered to go and get some free gear first.

[draticus]

Some rogues purposely stay in t8 because of the set bonuses which allow them to do more than t9 would. That's my point. If you could pick a rogue in t9 or one in t8 you'd probably pick t9, even if the one in t8 would do more.

Be less defensive imo.

I dont take the people with the highest gearscores. I eliminate the people with gearscores too low and then compare the rest. Thats using gearscore correctly.

And btw a rogue with full T8 and decent gear in the rest of his slots has a high enough gearscore to run anything. Everyone always black and white, all or nothing. Either gearscore analyzes everything perfectly and gives you a pin point accurate E-peen measure and DPS indicator down to the fraction of the DPS or its completely useless. Why?

[Kirvana]

As so many people have said, problem with the addon is not the addon itself, but the clueless people who use it as some kind of holy bible of succesfull pugs. People on my server rarely ask for GS (I don't pug much either), but whenever I've joined a run where people demand XX GearScore, it has been a failure. Obviously not because of the addon, but because of poor leadership.

What I am saying, is that the addon attracts bad leaders, who are trying to increase their chances of succesfull run by demanding unrealistic stats from people who join their raid. And that's why I dislike the addon.

[Gaxar]

Why is the assumption that people are *lazy* if they can't chain-run heroics like a heroin addict? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be lazy in WoW, I was busy watching my daughter.....etc etc

I think what he meant was that high quality epics are so easy to obtain there is no excuse for you to be in blues or greens AND attempting to join a raid that to run SMOOTHLY requires purples.

No one gives a fuck about your kid. No one gives a fuck about your pizza. What people give a fuck about is when you try to join other people in an mmo that requires a decent level of gearing in your shitty greens AND THEN you playing the 'i dont have time, why cant i be included' card. Thats just inconsideration. (not saying thats your toon, you get my meaning).

the OP makes several assumptions, as does the addon he uses, which is what is in dispute. The OP assumes if you have blues, you are more likely to be shit. if u have purples you are more likely to be good.

Only problem is, addon or not, these assumptions are not the general accepted norm. People are either shit or theyre, decent or theyre good or theyre great or theyre fucking fantastic. No addon tells u that pre raid.

[Texco]

Nothing tells you that prior to the raid. The only thing you have to go by is the level of their gear.

[draticus]

As so many people have said, problem with the addon is not the addon itself, but the clueless people who use it as some kind of holy bible of succesfull pugs. People on my server rarely ask for GS (I don't pug much either), but whenever I've joined a run where people demand XX GearScore, it has been a failure. Obviously not because of the addon, but because of poor leadership.

What I am saying, is that the addon attracts bad leaders, who are trying to increase their chances of succesfull run by demanding unrealistic stats from people who join their raid. And that's why I dislike the addon.

And this is the point I'm trying to bring to everyones attention. Hate the user, not the addon. So in the future if you see someone on the forums ask what gearscore is appropriate for ICC25 tell them 4.8 or 5.0 or whatever you believe, or dont replay at all (gasp). Don't flame them with skill>GS and other irrelevant flames.

[Sylenus]

I tried but everytime I think in an English accent, it always turns into angry Australian.

Same

[Aks]

Why is the assumption that people are *lazy* if they can't chain-run heroics like a heroin addict? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be lazy in WoW, I was busy watching my daughter

Apology accepted. Also, I hate kids and you sound like you might too.

[Monguin]

I can tell much more about the skill of a player by looking at the gems and enchants someone is using when i inspect them. Rather than base them on the number an addon spits out. Gearscore sucks.