Holy Paladin Guide (updated for 3.3)

[crazerk]

my point is that normal people who are gearing up their pally will not have access to cloth/mail, unless for some reason their shamans/cloth wearers do not want the drops. Obviously i don't just wear all plate for the sake of plate, as a matter of fact, my current gloves are cloth.

I do have enlightened judgements in my personal build, obviously you skipped it. but then again, it's not a top priority talent IMO. the gem thing is being editted, someone already brought it up

[Terlig]

51/5/15 is better, period. the 6% extra healing from devo isn't worth it as a tree druid or prot pally has the EXACT same buff and they don't stack. its also superior in terms of mana over a 51/20 build, you don't get Benidiction in the 51/20, 5% less mana to cast beacon is big.

No, it isn't big. 5% is aprox. 73 less mana for each beacon cast. It's one replenishment tick to me.

also in game crit works like its supposed to, if you have a 50% chance to crit you will crit right at 50% of the time in a fight (ie a situation in which there is a large sample size). ad 1% crit ~= 11 mp5 iirc so 5% more crit is about 55 mor mp5 which is like another piece of gear's worth of mp5.

This is failed argumentation. You will get 55mp5 from 5% crit, of course, but ONLY if you will spam trough the whole fight HLs and nothing more, which is simply impossible, because you need to use your cooldowns, you need to move a lot, and you need to use FoLs as well, even in full HL build.

From the other hand with Prot build you gain longer duration and buffed Sacred Shield - you save mana here.
You gain amazing CD - Divine Sacrifice which now you can use more often.
You got improved RF - amazing talent for hard-modes.

But, better go yourself and check any guild from top PvE progress. I doubt you will find any single holy paladin with crit build. It is simple not that viable after Illumination nerf.

the only libram worth using is the Heroism badge libram as FoL spam is dead and isn't viable for anything outside of heroics.

This is bullshit. I recommend you to read about Hard-Modes. Premonition did their Anub'Arak kill by using two FoL spamming holy paladins - if you proper gear and gem yourself, you will get more than 3k SP unbuffed, so including PvP Libram you will have aprox. 3.8k SP (with raid buffs) for FoLs. FoL spam is very viable if you can use it. Personally i prefer HL, but it doesn't change anything.

[selaney]

I've been playing a holy pally since vanilla and a lot of what you said is good info but like others I agree that at the beginning of a holy pally's gearing up its much easier to stack int and go HL build, once you get really good gear I've heard that FoL build works pretty good, but ehh I'm too cheap to regem/enchant my gear to try it out. As far as the BoL glyph I love it it saves me time/mana in the fights and there is nothing wrong with that. as far as gems so for my 1 red and blue (I think) to make my meta work they are both int+mp5 or int+splpwr I think lol... either way I wouldn't use the int+stam gems unless I wanted to pvp. Anyways thats my two cents. <3 Sel

[Firecrest]

This is bullshit. I recommend you to read about Hard-Modes. Premonition did their Anub'Arak kill by using two FoL spamming holy paladins - if you proper gear and gem yourself, you will get more than 3k SP unbuffed, so including PvP Libram you will have aprox. 3.8k SP (with raid buffs) for FoLs. FoL spam is very viable if you can use it. Personally i prefer HL, but it doesn't change anything.

FoL Builds had a place on HM Anub because the fight had very specific mechanics that led it to be useful. Do not confuse this with a build that would still work well in other content.

One fight on one dificulty in the entire game does not a plausable build make.

[darkwarrior42]

if you can not heal without clicks, then if you suddenly have to *spend 2 seconds of mouse moving or your raid will die* (f.e. popping some cooldowns, moving camera to see if there are new spawns like bugs in Anub encounter), your raid will die.

imagine that on Jaraxxus you have legion' flame on you, there are ~10 Infernals around boss and you must run, move your camera to not run into group of infernals, you have to not run too far away since your raid will lose fire resistance aura (there are infernals, as i've said), and you have to heal with your hs/instant fol and quick rebuff SS on anyone to save his life. it's hard for a clicker and it's much easier for keyboarder.

Or, instead of keybinding spells and trying to figure out how to target people without using your mouse, you can simply keep your camera zoomed out so that when you need to move, you already know what's going on around you. Doing so also lets you turn on hostile health bars without them being in your way. Since it is relatively simple to move with the keyboard, there's no reason you can't just move while healing with a click-to-cast setup.

Furthermore, if you use clique+grid/healbot/vuhdo/<insert healing addon here>/mouseover macros to heal, you do not ever need to target anyone you're healing. That means there is no reason you can't just target things you need to monitor and keep an eye on what they're doing the easy way (you could even focus one if you want to watch two things at the same time).

And honestly, there's something that confuses you about your assertions anyways. You have your heals keybound and don't use mouseover macros, fine. But, that means you have to target your spells somehow. That means either:
1) You're clicking your target. That means your style is inherently slower, because you're making the same initial motion as a click-caster (clicking the target), but you also have to hit the keybind after. At best, you're only matching the speed of click-casters.
2) You're targeting via keybinds. In a raid, this is an extremely cumbersome method, unless you're only healing people in your own party, in which case you're simply placing a larger burden on the other healer.

[Terlig]

FoL Builds had a place on HM Anub because the fight had very specific mechanics that led it to be useful. Do not confuse this with a build that would still work well in other content.

One fight on one dificulty in the entire game does not a plausable build make.

Did you check it? Premonition Pallies use FoL / SP gear for most bosses. Damn, they have to do something wrong

[Nørf]

who wrote this? This is actually an underrated trick that I find very useful. It works wonders, I should add it in.

I see all these posts of when to use DP and what to combine with it...really do you guys need to even use this? I never run into using it still topping meters(topping meters doesn't mean everything, but still) and end fights with 100% mana. It is called sitting in melee range and meleeing while you heal.

Was it so hard to read through the comments? :/

I don't know, takes a lot of work to make this "guide" legit, people will go here and blindly follow it, and while it's not correct I'd wait a good while before making it sticky atleast.

[harky]

FoL Builds had a place on HM Anub because the fight had very specific mechanics that led it to be useful. Do not confuse this with a build that would still work well in other content.

One fight on one dificulty in the entire game does not a plausable build make.

Many top guilds are using FoL setups for their Holy Paladins all throughout ToC and going into ICC and have been using them since Naxx. A lot of it stems not from fight mechanics, but the ability to shift gears. In a normal situation a FoL and HL Paladin will heal for about the same amount due to overhealing. When a large spike comes the HL spammer has their overhealing turned into effective healing, while the FoL spammer now has the option to drop substantially larger HLs on a target. While the FoL spammer isn't setup to sustain that pace, if a fight only ramps up to that type of damage for short spurts it can be very efficient.

It is also plausible, however, that because Anub is the only fight tuned to that degree that a playstyle tailored to it simply works in other fights due to them being substantially easier. That would mean FoL is a great idea if you're working on Anub, but otherwise it's a waste of time since HL is easier to gear for and play in other fights.

[Jellospally]

To the poster writing about standing in melee range, hitting the boss instead of using plea (hard using AW with plea >.<) ^^
Sure, on some fights where there are no melee aoe damage then its alright, but I also hope that you know that taking a hit on Gormok, from the aoe silence/knockback, might be your gain, but other healers loss.

Well duh I wouldn't be in melee range on gormok, even after hes dead i still have about 32k mar/43k mana in a 25 man on that guy and i can melee the worms and icehowl with no aoe dmg taken or having to move. lord jar dont gotta move while meleeing, faction doesnt really matter not a lot of healing with everything ccd to death on hard mode, twins i can melee since we do door strat, anub i can melee and heal easy since we stack under him until he burrows.

Also in icc marrowgar can sit under his hitbox and heal all 3 tanks while meleeing between casts, lady cant really melee one of the fights i use DP on once or twice, gunship dies too fast to need dp, saurfang about once.

Most fights don't need dp and if they do there is times were u can dp and not need wings because no one is really taking dmg and you can just do shitty heals till dp falls.

[Skulldancer]

Did you check it? Premonition Pallies use FoL / SP gear for most bosses. Damn, they have to do something wrong

This is in response to Telrig and the other pallies that commented on Premonition and the FoL build. First off FoL is not a bad thing at all, in fact its very good if you are past the haste soft cap and have decent sp. I was once a 12sp/10int and 12sp/5mp5 gemming pally with the PVP libram. I also used the Premonition excuse. I kept my tanks up but I often ran into mana issue and when I used Divine Plea the FoL was cut in half by spellpower making it VERY risky. With that being said Premonition has WONDERFUL and SKILLED dps that PERMITS them to gem the way they gem, the fights dont last as long making them have the ability to have just 27k raid buffed mana but allowing them to have VERY hight sp and HPS for FoL. they raid in a situation that only few get play in. Thats is what i had to understand being my guild has good dps but I can imagine Premo's dps over all. This is what people mean but different raid enviroment

[Riek]

Big LoL at 0/2 enlightened judgement

and @ harky, those guilds probably will have ridiculous dpses and raid healers to end the fight alot quicker than normal guilds. And not all holy paladins in top guilds aren't specced and itemized for FoL, alot of them are itemized and specced for HL

and after 3.3 patch, imho everyone should go 51/20/0 regardless of their build, due to the buff that Divine guardian (-20% dmg taken for the raid seems like a huge buff to me), and the 20% more absorption from SS seems to be much more useful when compared with 6% crit.

[harky]

I agree overall and I run with a HL setup on my Paladin even though we are running Anub. Dismissing FoL builds out of hand isn't acceptable though as it does work in a lot of situations and can be effective. I do disagree on everyone being 51/20 as well though (even though I am 51/20), purely because it becomes very limiting. There's little reason to be 51/20 as opposed to 53/17+1 if you already have another 51/20 Holy Paladin, etc. I won't disagree on 17 into Prot being required, it's those last 3 and the effect they have on keeping a well rounded set of buffs for the raid.

[Deleted]

But as a poster puts it very succinctly: Newcomers can go Crit build, Endgame raiders should go Dsac build.

I stopped reading here. What a load of crap. The new Dsac is totally worthless. Party members only? Come one. I thought you updated this guide for 3.3?

I've been raiding as crit build since I started, and with the gear that I currently have, I hit over 18k Holy Light crits, with a 42% to do so. Normal Holy Light hits for 12k + the insane mana return (Illumination is dead? lawl). And above that, Heart of the Crusader + Improved BoM brings a lot more to the raid than the Protection tree gives. Giving all that up, just for Divine Sacrifice? Hell no.

[Firecrest]

But as a poster puts it very succinctly: Newcomers can go Crit build, Endgame raiders should go Dsac build.

I stopped reading here. What a load of crap. The new Dsac is totally worthless. Party members only? Come one. I thought you updated this guide for 3.3?

I've been raiding as crit build since I started, and with the gear that I currently have, I hit over 18k Holy Light crits, with a 42% to do so. Normal Holy Light hits for 12k + the insane mana return (Illumination is dead? lawl). And above that, Heart of the Crusader + Improved BoM brings a lot more to the raid than the Protection tree gives. Giving all that up, just for Divine Sacrifice? Hell no.

Hey. Sup. Learn to read abilities. There's more to DG than party only.

I also like the part where you said that you've always raided in Ret. That really helped you show that you're a good Pally whose advice should be heeded. You know, shunning the whole "Possibly single most OP skill we've ever had" thing last patch. Nicely done.

[Deleted]

But as a poster puts it very succinctly: Newcomers can go Crit build, Endgame raiders should go Dsac build.

I stopped reading here. What a load of crap. The new Dsac is totally worthless. Party members only? Come one. I thought you updated this guide for 3.3?

I've been raiding as crit build since I started, and with the gear that I currently have, I hit over 18k Holy Light crits, with a 42% to do so. Normal Holy Light hits for 12k + the insane mana return (Illumination is dead? lawl). And above that, Heart of the Crusader + Improved BoM brings a lot more to the raid than the Protection tree gives. Giving all that up, just for Divine Sacrifice? Hell no.

I'd be a good idea to read Divine Guardian Tooltip before posting sth stupid which shows you have no clue

The Retsubspec is not worth it at all for raiding - your crits are overheal most of the time, illumination is in fact dead and with enough haste - which you certainly have in endgamegear - your noncrit HL bomb your targets even if they don't crit.

so yeah - giving up all that great retstuff for divsac+divguardian ? hell yes

[HolyshockTalniEU]

also, all the newcomers:
bind 1-FoL, 2-HL, 3-DF, 4-HS, 5-cleanse and delete healbot, clique and all your mouseover macroses. all others decisions are your.
the best healboter/cliquer/mouseoverer is slightly worse than the best keybinder. it's hard to became good keybinder without discomfort if you already are cliquer, but if you are new as holy pala - use keybinds +X-perl (or grid or standard interface) instead of mouseovering/cliqueing/healbotting.
[/quote]

lol you say keybinding>clique lol
keybinding is 2 actions(click the target and press that button) clique is just 1 click its faster then keybinding in most cases

[Jin84]

and after 3.3 patch, imho everyone should go 51/20/0 regardless of their build, due to the buff that Divine guardian (-20% dmg taken for the raid seems like a huge buff to me), and the 20% more absorption from SS seems to be much more useful when compared with 6% crit.

It's actually a nerf if you have been following the Divine Sac changes closely. It was 40% previously, 3.3 reduced it to 20%. Why do I know? We use the talent for making Heroic Twin Val'kyr easy.

[Jellospally]

Ok to the 2 people saying Divine sac is bad...its not that it is party only...but READ DIVINE GUARDIAN (20% dmg reduction for the WHOLE RAID for 6 seconds) it doesnt come off its purely just 20% less dmg take for 6 seconds and sac does its little party thing as well....

[Theholypally]

Holy paladins are reactive healers

Nope.

The good holy paladins are proactive not reactive. Overhealing isnt important unless its causing you severe mana issues and in that, causing a wipe...highly unlikely if played properly.

Dont worry about the overhealing. 70% overhealing is what most paladins average on fights...its not a bad thing. If you are starting to heal the target after they take a hit, on hard mode fights you cant afford to wait that long, and the tank will more then likely die.

If this guide is based upon the false assumption that paladins are reactive healers, then its the wrong way to teach new holy paladins to heal.

[Lexxe]

Estimated ideal stats for a T9 geared pally (predominantly at least lv245 items)
Haste – 700(cap), SP – 2600, Mana – 29000, Crit – 33%

Thats not right given the context of your gem posts.

How to gem?
Almost all of your gem slots should be filled with +20 Intellect gems. Your Meta gem should be the +21Int/chance to restore mana on cast . (once again, math has been done, go google this if you don't believe me).

I'm ~T9 geared gemming pretty much all Int, minus a couple of spell power gems, and I've got(unbuffed):
407 haste

I don't think its possible to get the 700 haste with current gear without gemming for it.