Rogue Threat

[Javanface]

Gonna have to agree with Voij here.

Feint reduces threat by 2162.

A rogue's threat modifier is 0.71*damage done

So assuming that he's doing 5k DPS, thats 5000*0.71 = 3550 TPS

Assume another rogue, doing 8k DPS, is using tricks on him, for 9 seconds every 30 seconds. That's an extra [9*(8000*0.71)]/30 = 1704 TPS

3550 + 1704 = 5254 TPS on average.

2162 / 5254 = 0.411496

So, 41% of a second's worth of Threat lost. That's not going to be a cause for losing threat on a boss mob.

[Voij]

Gonna have to agree with Voij here.

Feint reduces threat by 2162.

A rogue's threat modifier is 0.71*damage done

So assuming that he's doing 5k DPS, thats 5000*0.71 = 3550 TPS

Assume another rogue, doing 8k DPS, is using tricks on him, for 9 seconds every 30 seconds. That's an extra [9*(8000*0.71)]/30 = 1704 TPS

3550 + 1704 = 5254 TPS on average.

2162 / 5254 = 0.411496

So, 41% of a second's worth of Threat lost. That's not going to be a cause for losing threat on a boss mob.

Glyph of Tricks grants 4 additional seconds, so the buff-uptime is 10seconds. Just wanted to clear that up.

[Quackerano]

Gonna have to agree with Voij here.

Feint reduces threat by 2162.

Is that all?!

I just read the tooltip of "a large amount" and assumed it might be a % of your total threat...
You're right, 2162 is nothing, ignore my previous post.

[Javanface]

Glyph of Tricks grants 4 additional seconds, so the buff-uptime is 10seconds. Just wanted to clear that up.

Absolute brain-fart, of course it is.

I blame d34thangel for writing 9 seconds earlier in the thread :

[d34thangel]

sure sure, blame me >< yeah... brain farts... OOoOoOH! burgers are done, brb....

aight back, Yeah for anubarak, actually The Frost strike is rather easy... Nerves of steel is required however, and obviously so is Quick recovery. With nerves of steel and his freezing slash, your actually going to be taking less damage * can't dodge and whatnot however * because of the reduced damage, and your going to be taking 20% more healing all the time, along with other talents Also, you will be taking less hits then a normal tank if your doing it right, you just gotta make sure you can take 1 maybe 2 hits from the boss and have healers willing to do it

[Sesshou]

I dont know if I like that strat. You want to take nerves of steel AND quick recovery which means you are loosing a whole lot of key dps talents. You will also spend a fair portion of the fight stunned. What is your plan for keeping agro without a crapload of misdirects?

Also I dont know about this less hits than a normal tank. Our druid MT's anub (10, 10h, 25, 25h) and unless I took the 6% parry talents I dont think my avoidance is higher. Are you taking the parry talents?

I was looking at potential damage, and I dont think riposte is a dps gain. I'm just really hesitant to lower my dps. "Tank" gear, rogues low threat modifier, and parries already makes agro hard to maintain. I guess if you did need all those talents, you could stack extra MD's. How many do you usually run with?

Edit: I agree that nerves of steel is pretty important for the stun, I forgot about that before. Think that would be enough on its own?

[Spongy]

I heard rogues are for one thing only dps machines roll a tanking class... stop trying to be something your not you cant get enough avoidance this was a thing pre wotlk.

[K4ge]

I heard rogues are for one thing only dps machines roll a tanking class... stop trying to be something your not you cant get enough avoidance this was a thing pre wotlk.

Well, excuse us for having FUN while playing a GAME.

[Sesshou]

I heard rogues are for one thing only dps machines roll a tanking class... stop trying to be something your not you cant get enough avoidance this was a thing pre wotlk.

Another scrub... and one who doesnt even read the posts in a thread before he replies. Fact is, raid bosses have been tanked by rogues.

[paine4000]

Another scrub... and one who doesnt even read the posts in a thread before he replies. Fact is, raid bosses have been tanked by rogues.

Luckily Blizzard does not read the forums, if word gets out that we can actually tank we might become a "Hybrid" class


/subtely change topic to hybrid classes

[TripleF]

Kinda jumping in late to the post but reading all this has me interested, finding tanks for heroics blows and so i figure why not do it myself? any advice on how to get started? i have 22k health unbuffed in my full pve gear, ill post my armory later today when i replace 2 peices of gear. what kind of gear did you use to get crit capped ect.?
also do you use diff glyphs for tanking? im combat with 264/264 sword axe

[Sesshou]

Heroics? I actually run full raid gear/spec/glyphs. If I ever random into one with a boss I feel could potentially 1 shot me with a crit, I would probably switch gear. As for your question about getting crit immune, the only really feasible way is pvp gear. We dont get full crit immune from dps talents like druids, and stacking defense would be extremely difficult to cap by.

The main thing I would say you need for heroics is just avoidance, and then enough hp to give the healer time to finish a cast. You need to be careful about how much stuff you switch from your pure dps set up because as I mentioned early in the thread, our agro is fairly bad (especially AE agro).

Also, something I didn't pay much attention to until I started tanking heroics. There are lots of things that people generally stand in (I know I did) especially tanks because the damage is so insignificant that the healer has no problems healing it and the tank. For example, the purple poison pools in Gundrak. Very bad idea to get hit by any of those type of things without popping cooldowns while tanking multiple mobs as you can very easily get rng gibbed. Otherwise, a high avoidance and say 26k buffed hp should be enough to survive most heroics.

One thing though, you say finding tanks for heroics blows, but you do realize you can only tank a random if you have some one Q with you that has the ability to select the tank role because the game will never let you pick the tank role. Not trying to discourage you at all, I think its a lot of fun.

Edit: For tanking 10man bosses, you will need to be crit immune since a crit from basically any boss will almost definately instagib you. Also remember that the dps value of expertise (while tanking) above 26 will be identical to your standard raid dps value of expertise up to I think 50 (not sure if its quite that high, you likely cant get even close to the hard cap though) and the dps value of expertise 26 and under will be double what it usually is. High expertise also means less parrys which means less parry hasted attacks from bosses. So for stats, after crit immune, exp is next most important (Im assuming that your pvp pieces that you use for crit reduction will provide ample hp).

[Javanface]

In before someone makes a snide, uninformed remark about parry hasting being removed, it's still in game just not on every single boss.

(I should say I was under the impression it had been removed, but that was just the crushing mechanic which could lead to a boss getting parry-hasted attacks consequently eating shield block charges before the cooldown was back up leading to a crushable tank. What do you know, google is awesome)

Daelo on the US forums.

The reduced swing time for a creature's next swing after it successfully parries an attack still exists in the game, and the vast majority of all creatures in WoW use the mechanic. Note that we have the ability to flag specific creatures to not be affected by this mechanic if we so choose for balance purposes. An example of such a creature would be Patchwerk, a very high melee damage dealing raid boss.

Parry cap is 56 (460 rating) untalented according to wowwiki

[TripleF]

Thanks alot for the help =D although how do you get your hp so high? in full pvp gear my hp is only at 24.5k unbuffed around 23k now in pve

and as far as

"One thing though, you say finding tanks for heroics blows, but you do realize you can only tank a random if you have some one Q with you that has the ability to select the tank role because the game will never let you pick the tank role. Not trying to discourage you at all, I think its a lot of fun."

i have a warrior friend that i do them with for the daily random but hes to stubborn to build a tank set

[Sesshou]

You 're saying unbuffed though. I said 26k buffed, I wouldnt have 26k unbuffed either in my pve gear. Im sure 23k unbuffed is plenty.

[Anuibus]

You 're saying unbuffed though. I said 26k buffed, I wouldnt have 26k unbuffed either in my pve gear. Im sure 23k unbuffed is plenty.

you had 32k buffed on the first page >

[Sesshou]

I still have that for raid bosses, read the last couple posts, clearly talking heroics.

[Annoying]

I tanked Illidan, Gruul, and Mother in TBC. Back when 100% avoidance was doable. I'd be scared, but I suppose it could be fun.

Also, sup death. How's it hanging?

Thanks alot for the help =D although how do you get your hp so high? in full pvp gear my hp is only at 24.5k unbuffed around 23k now in pve

and as far as

"One thing though, you say finding tanks for heroics blows, but you do realize you can only tank a random if you have some one Q with you that has the ability to select the tank role because the game will never let you pick the tank role. Not trying to discourage you at all, I think its a lot of fun."

i have a warrior friend that i do them with for the daily random but hes to stubborn to build a tank set

I have like 32k raid buffed HP with no stam gear on...

[d34thangel]

Short shrivvled and kinda to the left, little itchy too, but i should solve that with a shower.... mmm chocolate milk

[chadma]

Wow troll is right, gonna tank TOC 10 Im sure, and exactly how are going to taunt Gormok off the other tank to survive impales?! I would have to unequip my weapon, unlick righteous fury and sit down to let you try to get aggro off of me. If your guild is short on tanks make a tank! only 25 levels for a DK...