Flurry and inconsistent weapon speeds, bad?

[Deleted]

When you have matching weapon speeds, the game seems to struggle to tell the difference between the two, therefore the second swing may end up elligible for things it really shouldn't.

Say I have 2x 2.6 speed weapons and i'm autoattacking. I crit once and get two hasted swings, but I only have one charge of flurry left. The game can't decide between the MH and OH, so both get flurryhasted for a total of 4 hasted swings.

Now what happens if I change my mainhand to 2.7 speed? Will that last flurry charge only haste my offhand as it connects faster than mainhand? Or are flurry charges only consumed on weapon hit, therefore still hasting both?

Also say I crit SS as I swing. Will my current swing get flurryhaste and will flurry charges get consumed from those swings, even if they get no haste?

I hope i'm clear enough in my question.

[Agitator]

so both get flurryhasted for a total of 4 hasted swings.

Are u sure about that ? I think its more logical that they have set priority on either Main hand or off hand, instead of getting 4 "flurry" hits.

[Cynadra]

Yes it does happen, I just did some testing, both hit at the same time, got a crit, then both swung again, had 1 charge left, then both swung again on only 1 charge. This as a fury warrior, but it's the same thing. Using 3.4 speed weapons.

[Tellaria]

Yes, there is indeed a known loophole in the Flurry mechanic, where with 2 identical speed weapons, you end up hasting 4 white hits.

I'm pretty sure using 2 weapons of different speed will de-syncronise the white hits, and you will end up only hasting 3 white hits, as it is the intended effect of Flurry. Testing this can be a bit ambiguous, but you should be able to verify it by going on the dummies with 2 weapons of different speed, and checking how fast the Flurry charges are getting consumed (on the 3rd or 4th white hit).

Now, whether this is "bad" is an entirely other matter:

With the current amount of melee crit most enhancement shamans are sitting at in raids, the Flurry uptime should be close to 100% wether you have weapons of the same speed or not. And having a 2.7 mainhand over a 2.6 (assuming same DPS) will outweight by far the small loss of Flurry-hasted hits.


I did very simple test via EnhSim to verify this:

Sim 1: 2.6/2.6 weapons, 41.50% melee crit (my usual config)=> 95.34 % Flurry Uptime.

Sim 2: Took the same config and simply changed mh speed to 2.7=> 94.16 % Flurry Uptime.

So indeed less uptime in Sim 2 as expected, which confirms that Sim 1 was getting extra Flurry charges. But the difference was too minor to affect overall dps, and the benefit of having a slower MH resulted in 47 more DPS in Sim 2.

Hope that helped.

[Fornaw]

Yes, there is indeed a known loophole in the Flurry mechanic, where with 2 identical speed weapons, you end up hasting 4 white hits.

I'm pretty sure using 2 weapons of different speed will de-syncronise the white hits, and you will end up only hasting 3 white hits, as it is the intended effect of Flurry. Testing this can be a bit ambiguous, but you should be able to verify it by going on the dummies with 2 weapons of different speed, and checking how fast the Flurry charges are getting consumed (on the 3rd or 4th white hit).

Now, whether this is "bad" is an entirely other matter:

With the current amount of melee crit most enhancement shamans are sitting at in raids, the Flurry uptime should be close to 100% wether you have weapons of the same speed or not. And having a 2.7 mainhand over a 2.6 (assuming same DPS) will outweight by far the small loss of Flurry-hasted hits.


I did very simple test via EnhSim to verify this:

Sim 1: 2.6/2.6 weapons, 41.50% melee crit (my usual config)=> 95.34 % Flurry Uptime.

Sim 2: Took the same config and simply changed mh speed to 2.7=> 94.16 % Flurry Uptime.

So indeed less uptime in Sim 2 as expected, which confirms that Sim 1 was getting extra Flurry charges. But the difference was too minor to affect overall dps, and the benefit of having a slower MH resulted in 47 more DPS in Sim 2.

Hope that helped.

Someone with 13 lifetime posts is not allowed to beat me to putting good information in a thread I deem interesting. :P

In other words, QFT

[Deleted]

Yes, there is indeed a known loophole in the Flurry mechanic, where with 2 identical speed weapons, you end up hasting 4 white hits.

I'm pretty sure using 2 weapons of different speed will de-syncronise the white hits, and you will end up only hasting 3 white hits, as it is the intended effect of Flurry. Testing this can be a bit ambiguous, but you should be able to verify it by going on the dummies with 2 weapons of different speed, and checking how fast the Flurry charges are getting consumed (on the 3rd or 4th white hit).

Now, whether this is "bad" is an entirely other matter:

With the current amount of melee crit most enhancement shamans are sitting at in raids, the Flurry uptime should be close to 100% wether you have weapons of the same speed or not. And having a 2.7 mainhand over a 2.6 (assuming same DPS) will outweight by far the small loss of Flurry-hasted hits.


I did very simple test via EnhSim to verify this:

Sim 1: 2.6/2.6 weapons, 41.50% melee crit (my usual config)=> 95.34 % Flurry Uptime.

Sim 2: Took the same config and simply changed mh speed to 2.7=> 94.16 % Flurry Uptime.

So indeed less uptime in Sim 2 as expected, which confirms that Sim 1 was getting extra Flurry charges. But the difference was too minor to affect overall dps, and the benefit of having a slower MH resulted in 47 more DPS in Sim 2.

Hope that helped.

A similar but better test is to Sim 2.6/2.61 speed so that the marginal speed change doesn't noticeably affect dps.

[Barawr]

I could have sworn I remember seeing a fix written for this in the EnhSim notes so that we no longer had to offset the speed of one of our weapons if they were both the same.

[Baabinator]

A similar but better test is to Sim 2.6/2.61 speed so that the marginal speed change doesn't noticeably affect dps.

was just about to say that, since slower = more damage from instant attacks.

[Spaceinvader]

I could have sworn I remember seeing a fix written for this in the EnhSim notes so that we no longer had to offset the speed of one of our weapons if they were both the same.

That issue was fixed in the v1.8.5.0 beta:

Release Notes
Big thanks to Peterle for supplying the patches!

* Fix for flurry synch

You shouldn't get significant variations in flurry uptimes between matched and unmatched weapon speeds when you run the tests Levva suggested.