Paladin needing an Innervate?

[taurnil]

to be fair i have played a holy pally trough burning crusade and up until i have never asked for an inervate in my life
if you are a bit reasonably geared and you need an inervate as a holy pally go jump of a cliff
put beacon of light on yourself and hit the boss a few times with seal of wisdom up for 1k mana per hit
if you need to bother a druid for mana jump of a cliff and learn to play your class

[Yooya]

First reply really ended the thread tbh.

You've killed 2 bosses in Ulduar I don't think you are knowledgeable enough about Holy Paladins to really comment. For the most part Paladins don't need Innervates, but by calling for one you're not 'bad'. Anub HM is an especially taxing fight for Holy Paladins coming near the end of P3, and on our first downing I had to use a innervate.

[Yooya]

to be fair i have played a holy pally trough burning crusade and up until i have never asked for an inervate in my life
if you are a bit reasonably geared and you need an inervate as a holy pally go jump of a cliff
put beacon of light on yourself and hit the boss a few times with seal of wisdom up for 1k mana per hit
if you need to bother a druid for mana jump of a cliff and learn to play your class

Hitting the boss can be good... at times, but if you're hitting the boss while people are taking damage then you are wrong. Not to mention you said put Beacon of Light on yourself I'm starting to think you're a troll, or at least very bad. I would never remove my Beacon off the target I am suppose to be healing especially sense on the average fight you won't get enough swings in at a time to make up the 2 beacons (not to mention I'm not even sure if it gives you a benefit) that you just had to cast as you aren't going to keep it on yourself for the whole fight.

[Skipper240]

I generally don't need an innervate as long as :

- I've killed the fight before and can plan out how I want to use my regen cooldowns
- No one dies and the fights goes smoothly

If I don't know the exact fight length I'll occasionally call for an innervate when my mana is at 60% and DP / Torrent are on CD. I MIGHT not need the mana as long as every other healer stays alive and the raid doesn't do anything stupid. Do I really want to risk it though?

I also call for innervates early rather then when I'm wat 10% mana. Does giving ferals a choice of when to innervate help their rotational issues?

[Yooya]

Do I really want to risk it though?

Something I think everyone should ask themselves when they are dropping on Mana with the fight showing no signs of letting up. In the end you sustaining your Mana, and your full fledged healing will likely be more important then that Feral's DPS loss. For repeating content though its definitely not a must, but something VERY nice to have.

[lawladino]

Dev. Plea reduces all healing done by 50%. I think i'd rather have a druid inervate then reduce the effectiveness of their heals by half just for 25% of their mana.

Lulz.

[Firecrest]

First reply really ended the thread tbh.

Except for that whole being wrong thing.

[Biteyou]

If you always need an innervate every fight, either you're doing it wrong, or you don't know your fucking class(itemization, cooldowns, etc). There's no reason there should be a 6 page topic on whos the bigger idiot.

[Yooya]

If you always need an innervate every fight, either you're doing it wrong, or you don't know your fucking class(itemization, cooldowns, etc). There's no reason there should be a 6 page topic on whos the bigger idiot.

I don't think anyone in here who knows whats what is saying you need one always. Its just not a bad thing to have if they're willing to throw it to you at an opportune time for themselves, or at a time of the utmost urgency for yourself. To discount Innervate as a useful ability for Holy Paladins is silly.

[Varius]

Only time ive seen pallies need innervate is anub phase 3 because they have to spam the tanks holy light the whole time, most other fights if they keep running oom they aren't using DP nearly enough.

[IngoDent]

I was doing ToC10 (Just normal) on my alt holy pala earlier this week, I have by no means good gear, it's rather... decent+, 31k mana fully buffed. On all 5 fights, I'd have loved to get an innervate, because the setup we had was 2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 DPS. One of the tanks was a decent player, not so good geared char, the other was a braindead paladin, with decent gear, healing was me and a disci priest. Not only did that disci priest not do a lot of healing (I know, they function around shields), but he also manages to die on every single fight. Leaving me alone to heal, 3/4 times (Not counting faction champions), boss was on 75%+.

Normally though, I shouldn't have needed an innervate. So your answer, from me, and what I've seen, some others here, is black, with shades of grey.

[Forcelink]

So basically you are complaining that the pallys are being lazy and not using the abilitys they have (i.e. divineplea etc) because you want to be lazy and not use the abilities you have (i.e. innervate)

You are right that in normal circumstances pally healer should not need an innervate but sometimes they may, sometimes they may forget to use there mana regen or get carried away..

To put it in a way more relevent to you as a dps.. Do shammy's complain when they are asked to use heroism / bloodlust.. hey any dps should be able to do decent dps without it anyway but sometimes it makes the run easier for everyone. Do pallys complain when they are asked to buff kings on everyone.. again another one you can live without.

This made me cry. If a pally needs an innervate, hes not using CDs correctly, or isnt healing correctly. And for the idiot who said FoL play is the way to go. Go FoL spam on festergut 3 stacks for example. And its not the druid being lazy, its having to use innervate on people who clearly cannot play. The only fight I go OOM on POTENTIALLY, in TOC 25 gear, would be a saurfang 25 pug with slow slow dps, or festergut. Note, I havnt raided HMs in a long time, so I dont know, and havnt tried Rotface or Putricide yet. I hear P3 is fun >

[Albie]

This made me cry. If a pally needs an innervate, hes not using CDs correctly, or isnt healing correctly. And for the idiot who said FoL play is the way to go. Go FoL spam on festergut 3 stacks for example. And its not the druid being lazy, its having to use innervate on people who clearly cannot play. The only fight I go OOM on POTENTIALLY, in TOC 25 gear, would be a saurfang 25 pug with slow slow dps, or festergut. Note, I havnt raided HMs in a long time, so I dont know, and havnt tried Rotface or Putricide yet. I hear P3 is fun >

The fact you don't do hard modes makes your input totally redundant. And how the hell can "potentially" you go OOM on saurfang? Its FOL FOL FOL on the tank - he takes no damage

A paladin will only need an innervate on hard modes because they are the mana intensive fights. In P3 of Anub HM, i can burn through 43k mana easily while popping cooldowns, so an innervate can be very handy.

[highslime]

Damn. I really had no idea that such a simple question (to me anyhow) could incite such a lengthy argument. 7 pages of this.. when I admitted I was probably wrong for even bringing it up, on like.. page 3 or 4. Either way, my solution has been to just tell them to let me know in advance that they'll need the Innervate, and provided all of my dots are on the boss, with time to spare, they can have it. Otherwise, they'll have to wait a few moments.

Secondly.. accusations of me being a "terrible cat" are pretty laughable. Does asking a question regarding the mechanics of another class make me a terrible player? No. I'm just trying to figure out why something was being asked of me that I was unfamiliar with. No need to get elitist about it.

The point is.. my question has been answered to my satisfaction. If a moderator could please be kind enough to close out this thread, it'd be much appreciated.

[Forcelink]

The fact you don't do hard modes makes your input totally redundant. And how the hell can "potentially" you go OOM on saurfang? Its FOL FOL FOL on the tank - he takes no damage

A paladin will only need an innervate on hard modes because they are the mana intensive fights. In P3 of Anub HM, i can burn through 43k mana easily while popping cooldowns, so an innervate can be very handy.

I said Pug. and on my server, pugs dont do well. Thus, Its actually beacon Mark, spam HL abput 13-8926-58934780 times before they actually kill it :

[Shinshiva]

The fact you don't do hard modes makes your input totally redundant.

WHAT THE FUCK?

[Albie]

Maybe a little harsh. But when talking about paladins needing an innervate, hard modes are the only situation that one may be needed.

[Forcelink]

Its true HMs are the only time you would possibly need an innervate. But I do the occasional TOGC pug on my server 3/5, and I dont see myself close to OOM at the end of those 3. From what Ive heard in anub 25 P3, yes you would probably need it. But I dont see much else where you would in a guild *I SAID GUILD, dont compare to my experiences in pugs*, festergut maybe ???

[Theholypally]

This is situational, assuming a paladin has 2pc t10, he or she can use divine illum + AW along with DP if its a dire situation where you need to get mana back but maintain some healing potency as well. +55% healing with those two abilities.

If the option is available that is (i.e. you dont have forebearance from using bubble wall or something)

(sry if someone already posted this i just saw its a 7 page thread)

[iktankniet]

closing topic on request of the TS