Give "newbs" a chance.

[Idoru]

....
See my point? Such people pissing me (and others) off. They should be banned for the whole PUG-System.

Group with your leet buddies and let the noobs use the PUG tool as it was intended...

[Zleepnir]

I agree with you, healing a massively undefence-capped tank through heroic PoS recently was both a challenge and quite satisfying when we ended up getting the achievement on the tunnel and one-shot Scourgelord. But while this group was very newbish, with 2 melee who died to poison nova (along with the tank), and any number of other failures - they weren't noobish because after tactics were explained they got the trick and the boss would die on the next attempt.

Sure, it can be satisfying when you carry an inexperienced, undergeared group through an instance. Shouldn't it be more satisfying for a group who does gear and spec correctly to use teamwork and strategy to get through a much more difficult instance?

I have no issue with having easier dungeons at 80, for new players to gain experience playing in a max-level setting. But the only difficulty to 5-man dungeons now is from running with idiots or inexperienced players.

[Fornaw]

I don't raid because I find it boring to run the same dungeon for more than an hour.

I loved it. It took way longer than it normally does to blow through the instance,

Just sayin' that's a bit self contradictory.

I don't bail on people because of their gear. I don't bail on them if they seem new or ask a dumb question. I'm probably even going to deny a vote kick of a person who is clearly bad if they aren't getting in the way too much, unfortunately this gives me less tolerance of bad tanks and healers. In fact I don't think I've ever hit yes on a vote kick since 90% of the dungeons I run I run with at least one other player I know, and 2 good players (usually one is heals or tank) can carry a 5 man.

My most recent story. Got H HoL last night on my healer. Tank was a DW frost DK (I never checked to see if his spec was okay) with an infantry assault blade (ilvl 200 blue tank sword) and a Red sword of courage (ilvl 200 epic tank sword) and mostly blue tank pieces for a grand total of 25k buffed health. If you know anything about DKs you know that that is a horrible setup for threat. In retrospect I think he had his weapons backward since the blue is a very slow weapon which gives it a good damage range, I wish I would have pointed that out. I laughed pretty hard when he died to the detonating rubble after the first boss. I've never seen a tank do that.

My DPS tanked most of that instance, which made healing, interesting, but not what I would call fun. We wiped twice neither time was the tanks fault more than the Enh shamans (pulled a pack with his wolves, didn't drop tremor in the statue hallway). I gave him a chance and killed the vote kick when it popped up. The most annoying person in the group was probably the hunter who linked party gearscores in chat, as near as I can figure he wanted us to know the tank was lowest (duh) and that he was a close second (gg hemorrhaging circle on a hunter). Only thing I really learned was that felguards and meta'd locks make decent tanks.

[Dasr]

We have all been noobs at one point, the difference is that we wanted to learn how to play. When I first started playing I had little idea what to do, I got the idea of questing and killing mobs and in the late 20's I had still never been in a group or ran a dungeon. (This is on my Nelf warrior that I played in vanilla btw, took a break and lost the account, rerolled to my current Tauren druid). Anyways I got into this group for stockade and was at a loss, I had no idea what a 'Tank' was or what 'DPS' stood for. Thankfully a few people in the group had mains and were just on alts and they explained it to me, I caught on fast and we soared through the instance. The point I'm getting to is people's willingness to listen to advice and seek knowledge. I will always try to help a new player and explain things to them, but when they talk back telling me to L2P or that this is actually their best rotation, or when my guild brings a new recruit to ToC or ICC and we wipe because they wont listen it really gets to me.

You say 'Give newbs a chance' well I will, IF they will listen, and IF they are willing to try.

[MestHoop]

In heroics I do not care if someone is doing 700 DPS.
I can inspect them and give some pointers, but that's about it.

I over gear heroics by a large margin (I tend to do it in half DPS gear) and if we have a fail healer I'll pull out the ol' ICC maintanking gear and try to be as helpful as I can, but mainly because I am stuck with these players (yes you can kick them, but they always have the damn debuff >_<).
In raids however people need to fucking read tactics and/or watch videos. It is what I did, so should they.

[vkei]

no sorry
anyone should not be newbs at 80
with the lv1 - 80 prossec... u should be able to learn your class
atleast what the role u should be in PVE,what tools u have .......
there must be something totally wrong with the player behind the lv80 newbs.....sorry your chance is already gone at lv 1-79
by dinging 80...u should know your class and nomore a newb, u don't need to be as great as those top players but, pls....not a hunter in melee range with no pet ....

[FightClub777]

I laugh loudy at posts like this.

I was a complete noob in Vanilla, and still inexperienced in TBC.

I spent 4 weeks waiting on standby outside Hyjal when i made my first move to a really good guild (and by really good i mean a World top 50) before i got into a decent raiding spot.

Noobs have never had it easier.

To prove my theory i ditched my main raiding character (9200 achieve points, deaths demise, celestial defender), and started levelling my 70 alt.

I spent 2 weeks levelling him casually to 80, and since i dinged 80 it took me 5 days to get a 5000 gear score, having no help other than setting up my own pug raids/joining other pugs and spending badges aquired from running heroics.








Yes, posts like this make me laugh......



























Alot.

[Everlightly]

My mains enhance, toc 10/25 and icc 10 gear, not top of the top, but ok, I like a smooth run, things go wrong, I bitch about how crap the guys are to my guild m8s on vent, but never to the group i'm with. If we wipe because tanks rubbish, I bite my tounge, get in there and get the boss done, If i see anyone that is doing something wrong (gems spec gear rotation) I will gently whisper them and tell them what they are doing wrong.

I have also recently rolled a DK frost tank DW spec, most heroics tend to go well, but i'll get odd idiots pulling trash before I do, i'll get hunters MD and rogue TotT FoK trash to me, which makes it a little easier, but i'll get locks mages running in pulling trash and all too, i've now made a macro to let these people know what will happened and hit when we enter a random

"Hi Guys, I'm an experienced player that has rolled this alt and currently learning the mechanics, as a DK i have 2 taunts on long term cool downs and no multi taunt, I will pull at my own pace and would be greatful if u can watch ur aggro and dont hit anything i'm not, if u should pull before me or over aggro because you wanna get your 6k dps I will not taunt the mobs off you, and happy watch u die, please leave the group if u are unhappy about this"

only had 3 people leave so far

[Cpttrips]

I have no issues with new 80's or undergeared players i just cant stand the players in teir gear they have obviously gotten by being carried thru 200 heroics :P

no gems, no enchants, or int gemmed huntards, ret's with sp gems etc etc, hunters with no pets out, ret's with shields, one handed arms warriors, teir gear and a green or blue weapon, mages casting lvl1 spells, shamans that dont put totems down, people that afk for 50% of an instance.

the above mentioned people doing 700k dps are the ones that annoy me.

[Vasz]

I have a lvl 70 Aliance warlock on my second account that ive not played in maybe a year. He is still in "free pvp epix" and lvl 70 crafted gear. I re-subbed him because i was thinking of moving him horde. He pulled 1400-1500 dps in shit gear, and i didnt know any form of rotation.

I think ANYONE pulling less than 1500 dps in HC should go back to the drawing board and maybe start up less complex, like gardening.

[Fenixdown]

I was a complete noob in Vanilla, and still inexperienced in TBC.

This is the point I would like to emphasize on. That is a 3-4 year gap. From that you went from basically mediocre to below average to average to good. In four years.

However, you expect someone who hit level 80 four weeks ago to have your four years of experience and knowledge in four weeks. Unless there are people trying to help them out, that's not going to happen.

When I started playing (mid vanilla), I was a total noob as well. When I went to my very first raid, someone told me to check my Omen and my reply was "what's an Omen?". My first epic, on a hunter, was Vendorstrike. I thought melee weapons were for if you actually had to melee things. I didn't run around just whacking things with a polearm all day, granted.

I went about the same road you did. Moved up and by late BC I was in a solid progression guild. Not "world top 50", like you proclaim (which without evidenciary proof sounds like a load of malarky, how many people on this forum always claim they are in the best guilds ever and clearly are nothing but trolls, i.e. chex), but good enough for my tastes.

Now, you have a few people who discover nifty tidbits like MMO-Champion on their own and can ask questions, of which a vast majority of you give about as much helpful advice as I give blood on a yearly basis (and I hate needles). But, overall, how is a person going to learn if someone does not attempt to teach them? YOu learned. I'm sure most of that was by talking to people more experienced or on a higher scale of play than your own. I learned by asking questions all the time, and finding out what places and websites I could go to to ask even more questions or do my own research. But Mister Justboughtthegame, odds are, hasn't a clue about any of that sort of thing unless someone says "hey, you know, I think you could do much better if you tried this" or "you don't seem like a bad person, but your play needs work. Why not go look on suchandsuch.com and see what they say you could do to improve?".

Teaching is done via communication. You didn't go to your 1st grade math class and have your teacher tell you "okay, class, go learn how to add and subtract" without at least giving you a math book first. If you want people to learn, teach!

Now, that being said, there are a good number of players out there that have no desire to improve. Those people I have no sympathy for, nor do I expect anyone else to. However, there are also many out there like FC here, and most of the posters in this thread, that are HORRIBLE at teaching and communication. Is it that hard to be nice? If someone is being a douchebag and playing poorly, I can understand the attitude. But if they're a decent person and possibly willing to learn, does it KILL you irl to type one line of advice to make them better? Do you think the bad players are just going to magically become pro and make this game more fun to play for all of you?

The logic of the actions boggles my mind. If you hate other people that much, why play an MMO? Wouldn't a single-player game be more your style? If someone asks me a quesiton about gear or spec or something of that nature, I answer it the best I can. If I can't answer it, I tell them who to talk to or where to go to get the right answer.

Let's put you, FC, back in your vanilla noobness again, only now. Now, let's say you are the fresh 80 noob and you are totally clueless. However, obviously, you want to get better. Which reaction would you respond more to?

a.) "God, f&*^ing retard, get a clue and l2p scrub."
b.) "Hey, man, I think you should be doing alot better. Have you tried looking on elitistjerks.com for some help?"

Now, I know one is a longer sentence than the other. And oh heavens forbid we actually use more than 5 words when we're online. I feel highly fortunate that back in the old days, very few people acted like the first example because they could still remember when they were learning the game, and they wanted to make that process a little bit easier on others by giving solid advice. Now, everyone expects you to install and play like you could be in Ensidia. Just like that, poof.

Also, this whole "learning to play while you level"...really? Maybe in vanilla you had to, to some degree, but now? Leveling is so incredibly piss easy that you barely even get a chance to learn anything anymore. Heck, they've removed or made obsolete half the class quests in the game from 10-60. Druid lost half their stuff, lock and pally both lost a good chunk of theirs, and heck 90% of the time people just skip them. "It's too far out of the way, no thanks". Or "it's just for something I'll replace in Outland, eh". And as for instances, you hardly learn anything nowadays beyond how to use your AoE button.

Point being, in the end, you can't just expect new players to be as good as you are after 4, 5, or even 6 years of playing this game. This expansion is THEIR vanilla. They need to learn. If they want to learn, maybe try teaching. Giving one piece of helpful advice to someone will go a very, very long way to improving this game for everyone. If yuo want Blizzard to stop making the game easier, try making the players better instead of just shunning them like some kind of plague. Who knows, maybe if you do, you'll have the game and the people in it back at the levels you want them to be at again!

Is that so hard? Really?

[Kalash]

I don't raid because I find it boring to run the same dungeon for more than an hour.
Because of this I run a ton of heroics [...]

Yeah, that makes total sense.

[Pyranthal]

I must admit I had mixed views on this one. I've got 2 level 80's, which were my first 2 characters, both levelled without running dungeons on the way. I get to 80 then think....what'll I try now? So I jump into dungeons without any research and pretty much suck. So I go and read up...but I can't remember everything i read in the "heat of battle" so I have to rely on those around me to point out what I should be doing. Eventually my Holy priest gets competent becasue everyone wants a healer, and I;ve now ignored my hunter. I'm now getting back to playing him but realise I don't have a clue about what to do with those dungeons as DPS instead of healer, so it's the same learning curve again.

Now I'm not some spotty faced kid, far from it (very far...), but no matter what you've bene doing before, there can always be something to elarn and if others in your group give you a chance, you will. I've had groupies who wanted to kick me and those who will help and I know which I prefer.

Then there's trying to get add on's like Grid set up properly, not something you can get right first time either...

Plus the fact that I'm on from 10pm GMT until 12.30 am or so means that it seems an awkward time to find a guild so some of us have to make do with PUG's or nothing...not the quickest way to learn anything

[VibeTribe]

Thanks but no thanks. It's my entertainment time, I don't feel like spending it on teaching some random person I don't know on the Internet how to play properly.

[Arag]

Newbs: Don't be lezy bcs it will turn you into ugly lazy noobs. If you wan't to learn something get google and read up. If you don't have time for it you shouldn't be playing with other ppl. We aren't elementary school to teach you basics. We are more collage/university to say you tips to maximize your effort not to build it from scratch.

[CoOoOKie]

....He was like "NO, i like being BM". Please, be my guest, be BM somewhere else. If I play a dps class my fucking duty is to maximize it. You dont play a healer in dps spec just because you like it more...no one will do instances with you either.

See my point? Such people pissing me (and others) off. They should be banned for the whole PUG-System.

So you'r tellig ppl how they HAVE TO specc to join a pug ?

,,hey buddy stop insulting my uber-1137ness with your noobish specc and GTFO!"

If he like's playing as BM ffs let him play as a furry pet loving Hunter. It won't kill you or slow you down like crazy. (5man Heroics are srz right?)

It's a GAME not a JOB or something. It's about FUN and not about some freaking Duty O_O

Sorry good sir but you are the fail of the month. No interwebs for you.
I would rather go with some 1,4k DPS noobs than with a freakin allknowing and 24/7 shouting Drillinstructor.

[Deleted]

I think it might be time for more experienced players to reconsider running with new, extremely casual, or just plain bad players of the World of Warcraft. As a disclaimer I am not the most "hardcore uber-leet roflstomper" who has ever waved his e-peen around. I don't raid because I find it boring to run the same dungeon for more than an hour. I have been on a few raids before and performed just fine, but it's not really my cup of tea. Because of this I run a ton of heroics, and try to gear out my character the best that I can in that manner. I decided to heal a random reg last night to get the last two badges I needed for a new piece of badge gear. I joined a group to run Halls of Lightning, with a DK tank, an Spriest, Hunter, and Rogue. All of the players were 78-80, and all but the spriest had issues. The spriest was fine level 78 and tapping the charts at 1.3k which is fine maybe even really good (I've never played one) for someone of his/her level. The tank was earnest and fun, but didn't know the instance and struggled holding aggro in groups. The rogue had a hard time pushing 800 dps, but otherwise not a problem. The hunter was from a different planet entirely, no pet, stood in melee range attemping to fire, volleyed on every pull,trapped seemingly at random, and pulled about 500 dps.
I loved it. It took way longer than it normally does to blow through the instance, whiped once, and struggled on things I haven't struggled on in a long time. It was challenging, exciting, and a bit humorous, it is a great break from the faceroll monotony that most of the runs I am on have become. Before you bail early on your next group of "bads" what I am saying, is give "newbs" a chance.

Just because you are a sado-masochist, doesn't mean every1 wants to endure the pain retards bring.

[Anwi]

I would rather go with some 1,4k DPS noobs than with a freakin allknowing and 24/7 shouting Drillinstructor.

qft

[Shiira]

I think it might be time for more experienced players to reconsider running with new, extremely casual, or just plain bad players of the World of Warcraft.

Blizzard already forced me into doing this by giving us emblems of frost from heroics and I don't appreciate it at all.

I think it might be time for the less experienced players to start learning more about the game and work on improving instead of expecting everything to be made easier for them so they don't have to.

[legendariuz]

what I am saying, is give "newbs" a chance.

No.