4 pc t10 for kitties, DBW, what are BiS trinkets, and what to/not to gem for

[Selverein]

waiting 1.5 seconds 4% of the time

Minor correction, but the melee GCD is 1.0s

[exochaft]

While this is true, it's always been this way. The reason it was not beneficial to gem for hit/exerptise was that at lower levels, it would have resulted in a dps loss, even if it would have made it more stable. Now at later gear levels, white damage is the biggest contributor to dps which makes hitting the boss that much more important. In ulduar, it used to be that it was shred and rip that contributed the most. The only reason ferals are supposed to gem for hit/expertise now is that it's quite simply a dps GAIN to do so, because of the gear level.

Yes, the way our kitty damage is spread, being hit/expertise capped is much more beneficial right now. I remember seeing Rip and Shred topping damage done for kitties back in Naxx and Ulduar days, and those abilities are much more in our realm of control.

I'm not mainspec kitty but last raid I did melee was between 30-35% of my total damage. The other 65-70% of my damage does not get a considerable penalty from miss/dodge, waiting 1.5 seconds 4% of the time isn't going to have a considerable impact on dps from what I can figure.

While white damage is our top damage done, you still have 65-70% of your other damage being manually applied and taking GCDs. 4% may seem like an insignificant number, it really depends when you don't connect. If we have a 4 minute fight, that's 240 melee GCD's, 4% is approximately 9-10 GCDs. However, this is assuming unlimited energy, which really doesn't happen (you'll have dead time pooling energy or waiting on a timer or movement). For simplicity, we could say that we have unlimited energy, and we could've tossed in 9-10 Shreds instead.

I'll pull out one of my logs from when I was kitty. Alright, on a Lord Jaraxxus 25man that lasted 3min47sec, I was averaging 10816 damage per Shred. 4% of the GCDs would be slightly over 9. That's 97.3k damage lost if I somehow missed 9 Shreds. 1,782k damage done (7850 effective DPS if I was active 100% of the time) almost exactly w/o missing, so if I did miss 9 Shreds, I'd have done 1,684,700 damage instead (effective 7422 DPS). So if I had equal stats except 4% less chance to connect, and I'd be using Shred instead of reapplying whatever missed, being hit/expertise capped granted me 428 DPS (this isn't even including missing autoattacks). So in this case, in order to break even, I'd have to stack on enough arpen/agi/crit/haste to get me 428 DPS to break even. If we include 4% of the autoattacks missing, 2848 average white damage attack, 8 attacks of 207 total attacks would miss, 22.7k damage lost. Grand total of 4% autoattack and GCD loss would yield 120k damage loss at an effective DPS of 7233. That's a 617 DPS loss.

Here's the caveat: this is a very ideal model applied to a real-life situation. You will experience energy loss when missing yellow attacks, since unlimited energy is never the case in-game (unless we're playing with Vael). This means less GCDs will be used on yellow attacks, but this means the RNG can be more or less forgiving (the longer the fight, the better the RNG should be though). Also, we assumed that missing an attack didn't screw up our priority system, which has a chance of happening if multiple things are slated to expire at the same time, or on multi-target fights. As you can see, modeling a hit/expertise loss situation is a very tricky thing do to, since it really is dependent on what really does miss and when.

[Nassam]

your nightmare tear should be in your hands, not in your cloak.

thx (did this profile quickly before leaving work at the request of 4yBaK )

And thx Exochaft for your posts (always good ones ).

Personnaly, i prefer to be hit/exp capped, but what i am trying to show others here, is that the awfull sack of wonder is by no means a "BiS" !!! They are all "oh we need this item to get hit/exp capped". no you need not ! there are better ways (eveng gemming hit/exp does more DPS than this chest !!!)

[sousuke2]

That's the BiS i'm going for, with arpen food and a draenei : http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=20701525

[Cortano]

Its worth pointing out... if you are at the crit cap (i.e. misses/dodges are pushing crits off the table), or get there with raid buffs and procs, hit/exp becomes much more valuable. If you don't have primal precision, hit/exp are much more valuable as well.

if you don't have primal precision: you should cap hit + exp
if you can reach the crit cap: you should cap hit + exp
otherwise: your points may be better spent elsewhere

[puckface]

Its worth pointing out... if you are at the crit cap (i.e. misses/dodges are pushing crits off the table), or get there with raid buffs and procs, hit/exp becomes much more valuable. If you don't have primal precision, hit/exp are much more valuable as well.

if you don't have primal precision: you should cap hit + exp
if you can reach the crit cap: you should cap hit + exp
otherwise: your points may be better spent elsewhere

I don't see why someone wouldn't get primal precision, there is no where else you can put the points that would benefit your single target dps

[fredlegrand]

It is not hard to reach ArP/hit/expertise caps with current gear.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...er&cn=Traiance

I would need 3 hit gems, and 2 Expertise gems to reach the caps. Add DBW ( which I'm next in line to get ), that's 70 more ArP, then the rest will come from my Sactified tier pieces.

@Trinkets: My luck for those is horrible.

[puckface]

sorry i keep bumping this, but I don't feel like a conclusion was reached on the haste vs hit/exp debate. I just got a new belt that brought exp down to only the bonus i get from primal precision and I'm noticing a huge difference in how much my yellow attacks come out on targets. It doesn't look to be like an increase in my dps because of this even though it gave me 2 more sockets than my last belt and an upgrade to every other stat at the lost of the exp. I plan to "fix" this by buying my t10 leggings next, but it is still making me lean more toward to hit/exp cap after I saw what it did. Maybe I don't exactly plan on completely capping them, but at LEAST leaving them somewhere in between.

Also, is it conclusive that ArP is our most important stat and we've narrowed it down to hit/exp versus haste or am I wrong?

[Sunshine]

The answer is simply "it depends". With how much damage we're doing now, it's more painful to miss an attack than it used to be (see exochaft's explanation), but for the same reason, extra attacks via haste are also beneficial. Which should be more important for your situation and your gear? We can't tell you that. You'll have to look at a more personalized recommendation, such as for a simulator (any of the ones mentioned in multiple threads should be fine -- Rawr, Toskk, etc).