Frost DK's need PvE DPS increase: Here's why

[skaarrj]

Because they're lower than blood and unholy. This is common knowledge. Each tree provides a buff as well, so I dont see any particular reason why Frost should remain where it is. And Blood or Unholy DPS is not overpowered, or blizzard would be taking steps to nerf them. Frost was doing fine way back when it had the ability to use 2 handed weapons really well. But it's been "nerfed" since the change to dual wield.

It's probably really easy to buff frost without doing too much of a pvp buff. Improved Icy Talons could provide more haste, Dual Wield Spec could provide more of a offhand damage increase. Death Chill could be changed to be a better offensive cooldown. I would even go as far as to change Improved Frost Presence to have you carry over your 15% attack speed haste from unholy presence instead of keeping your stamina.

[Vodamn]

I would even go as far as to change Improved Frost Presence to have you carry over your 15% attack speed haste from unholy presence instead of keeping your stamina.

[Sigma6987]

Am I wrong to think a raid wide 20% haste buff makes up for a lack of dps? Or is the lack of damage several thousand?

[OnlineSamantha]

QQ more, dude, you don't see Frost Mages run around QQ'ing about their PvE perspective, do you? If you don't think you do enough damage as the spec you currently are, I have a simple solution for you: RE-SPEC! :

/facepalm

[Snebbles]

Eh, frost DK is fun, but if it is equivalent to the Prot tree, then we won't be seeing a DPS increase.


The only thing I don't like DPS wise is that unholy has devoured every other tree, nothing beats it in anything now. I like the Unholy tree, it brings some unique debuffs and makes you a good raid asset, but frost can be really fun sometimes, Rime .

[Guitarn]

QQ more, dude, you don't see Frost Mages run around QQ'ing about their PvE perspective, do you?

Yeah, you do.

Eh, frost DK is fun, but if it is equivalent to the Prot tree...

It is not.

The only thing I don't like DPS wise is that unholy has devoured every other tree, nothing beats it in anything now.

Blood is very comparable on single target and cleave-able small group fights.

[Hedstone]

I lost roughly 2.5kdps swapping from UH to Frost for 25m Putricide. Our enhancer was MIA so I respecced to pick up WF.

Disparities:

UH has Bryntroll where DW has the 251 quest weap and 245 HM10m ToC axe.

Really though, I doubt that accounted for the entire chunk of that.

I'd say buff Obliterate's bonus from diseases as well as add another 5% to FS. Last, make the 3% hit talent also apply to spells - POW frost tree fixed.

[Haxxored]

DW frost is just poorly designed.

The spec relies much too heavily on KM procs for free crits and as gear increases these crits begin to matter less since you were more than likely going to get that crit anyways. It's a poorly designed concept which is hard to balance and highly RNG. How do you buff it so that Frost DKs dont get massive burst in PvP while still doing allright in PvE. Frost used to be the Tank spec of choice but with the HP pool inflation Death Strike has turned into a mitigation ability and Frost DKs look more and more like a mana sponge.

Ways to buff frost - Additional passive damage, harder white hits, better diseases.
- 1h weapons itemized.

No way blizz puts in 1h weapons that rogues / shamans / hunters wont want the reason they gave Titans grip to wars is so they wouldn't have to deal with Furry using agi weapons.
As for the increased passive damage DKs wont want that. The spec has always been about WF like burst thorugh KM / Frost strike spam making them more rogue like isn't going to make them happy since its more about play style than actual numbers. If they wanted numbers they would swap they like the style and the style is poorly designed and implemented. Sorry DKs there are other problems and other alternatives in the game.

[Skollvaldr]

Way I see it, Blood and Unholy both have to manage more than Frost does for PvE DPS. Unholy's gotta deal with the pet and the Garg, and Blood has to deal with Hysteria/DRW. Frost has to.... what precisely? Mash UA when it's up and get Rime proc in when they pop and... figure out how to Frost Strike their RP away?

I'll grant you that there's not a whole lot more to DPSing as the other specs, but Frost just seems like easysauce as far as all that goes. If they were to buff Frost I'd like to see it require a bit more attention, rather than something simple like adding an off-hand rune that give Frost a bit more Damage.

stop making things up. dw frost dps requires by far more attention to procs/buffs than blood or unholy.

try it before you talk about it!

[Praxis]

I play Frost because I enjoy it, not because I think it's the highest DPS. I just think it's shitty that Unholy is more than 1k DPS ahead of Frost in BiS gear. I don't enjoy doing poorly because I like hitting things with two weapons.
I do perform well for the spec, but I also think having access to strength-based one-handers or increasing the damage modifier on Tundra Stalker would help a lot.

Also, to whomever said Blood and Unholy require more attention to detail than Frost... you're wrong. I can fall asleep playing Unholy. It's simple. It's always been simple. Frost isn't that hard, but it at least requires doing a little more than a static rotation. Maybe if Unholy had procs to manage like Frost does, I would enjoy it more. Pet management is pretty much nonexistent since your Ghoul and Gargoyle take 90% less damage from AoE anyway. They pretty much never die.

[Sigma6987]

Why bring a Frost DK when a Shammy will give the same buffs?

Admittedly I forgot about that 20%, Blizzard does purposely give classes the same buff to make up for the lack of a class in a raid though.

Ignoring the Shaman raid wide haste, wouldn't that 20% raid haste make up for a minor lack in personal DPS? Or is Frost DPS lacking by a huge amount? If the first part is the case, I don't think Blizzard will care to much if Frost's personal DPS is lower than the other 2 specs. All the classes have overlapping buffs now to make up for lack of a class or to make it so a certain class won't feel required for a group composition.

Problem with that last part is heroism/blood lust will always be wanted/needed/loved ;D

Disclaimer: I don't play a DK, but I'm asking an honest question (bold part) out of curiosity.

[mhp]

1k DPS difference is not minor.

[Ellasril]

Frost is not like a ret pally. Ret pallies just push whatever cooldown is up first. Frost has to @ the very least manage Rime/KM procs and decide when to Frost Strike and waste a crit. Its not near as faceroll as you think.

[Ellasril]

You say blood is maximizing Heart Strikes, but what is Frost but maximizing Frost Strike, Obliterate, and Howling Blast all @ the same time?

[Comby]

I've allready posted on the wow suggestion site. Pve and pvp frost is useless atm and its so unfair. How come one spec is given the best performance in all aspects of the game.

The ballcrushingly boring shitty sleep on top of the keyboard hitting random buttons unholy spec sux so bad. But atm there really isnt any other way to go.

Same goes for pvp, among the 100 top arena dks in the world, 90 of them are unholy, 9 of them are blood. And ONE fuckin dk is frost specc

Fuckin blizz, so damn unfair. Bring back frost dk's. It was never the most popular spec even when it was good, now its dead.

In arena we cant even pressure a dps within a focus death grip, iceblock and focus silence locking down the healer. I played frost dk to 2400 rating in season 6 and it was incredibly fun.

If blizz fixes this I might even activate my account again. As for now, unholy completely made me lose interest in the class and the game.

GG blizz.

[mhp]

So.... does Frost need to Hysteria/Trinket/DRW after it's first rotation? What is Frost's spin up for rotation? Yes, you can macro all this crap, but there's more buttons to push to start up your Blood Rotation than Frost. I'll grant you that Frost has to keep it's eyes open for Procs, but that's not the same as needing to hit more buttons to spin up.

Blood applies diseases, then spams HS/BS, with Hysteria/Trinket/DRW thrown in when necessary.
Frost applies diseases, then spams OB/BS, keeping an eye on procs.

Now, what is "harder": popping a few things after the first rotation, and then just smashing the same buttons until Hysteria/trinket/drw are ready again, or keeping an eye on procs all through the fight?

Blood is easy. So is Unholy. And so is Frost. None of them are any harder than the rest, but Frost is the only one that needs to care for procs constantly. The other two has to once every 2 minutes or so.

[Ellasril]

Militant you do have me beat there. We Frost DK's don't have anything but UA and a trinket occasionally to pop @ the beginning of a fight. But on the flip side its more fun and requires more attention, and, come on, why do we play this game other than for fun?? lol

[Comby]

QQ more, dude, you don't see Frost Mages run around QQ'ing about their PvE perspective, do you? If you don't think you do enough damage as the spec you currently are, I have a simple solution for you: RE-SPEC! :

/facepalm

What the hell does this moronic post have to do with anything? Frost mages are PVP SPECCED, lets see how mages would have felt if they sucked in pvp AND pve, while another tree, like fire, was the ONLY way to go in both pvp and pve. Try to imagine that. Think before you type.
It would have been a completely different story if dk frost were the best pvp spec, but sadly thats not the case. Unholy assrapes frost both in a pvp spec, and a pve spec.

[talitu]

DW frost tank spec is good fun for me. ok its not a boss tanking build but its great for heroics, trash and maybe even 10 man.

sure it would be nice if they made it more viable but the key issue is paladins being so massively op nothing else gets a look in on bosses anyway

[mhp]

DW frost tank spec is good fun for me. ok its not a boss tanking build but its great for heroics, trash and maybe even 10 man.

It's perfectly fine for 25-man bosses aswell. Heroic bosses included (at least TotGC25).