10 Things Wrong With Your Holy Pally's Armory

[roboscorcher]

No.

Reasoning please. I don't want to switch my gear without understanding why.

[dookieguy1039]

So. I am currently running a flash of light build, and I LOVE IT. Granted, we have a holy light paladin in our guild as well.

My armory - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ircle&n=Rhodas

A recent parse of a 20-man ToC we did the other night after wiping on Putricide

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/k0k0r...m/healingDone/

I'm not going to flame anyone, or do any bitching about which spec is better. I just want people to see an armory and a parse of a FoL build Paladin, and decide

for themselves whether or not they would like to pursue it. It's definitely great to have BOTH a HL Paladin and a FoL paladin in 25's.

Ask questions/criticize me, please.

[Claym]

You are telling me that 1 gem with any 2 of : spellpower, mp5, haste(or int, i dunno). is more of a loss then 1 gem that only has 10 int on it? since it was ssaid not to stack int, then I would assume that either spellpower, or mp5 is better, in which case i just see wasted ilvls in the gem. Using 1 coloured gem that contains the 2 colours you dont gem with seems like a much better use. I might rewrite this a little later to make it make more sense if i decide to spend 5 minutes learning how to gear holy ;D

I think you need to first understand what intellect actually gives a holy paladin

Here is what 100 Intellect gives:
121 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect
1815 Mana at the start of the fight
39.5Mp5 from Divine Plea, if it is used on CD.
18.1Mp5 from Replenishment.
4.7Mp5 from Arcane Torrent, if you are a Blood Elf.
25.3 Spell Power
0.759% Spell Crit

It's not so simple, but it's an all around stat. Of course, if your gear is deficient in one area or another, use your head and gem for the weak areas. But intellect is usually the best way to go straight up.

[goetz401]

So. I am currently running a flash of light build, and I LOVE IT. Granted, we have a holy light paladin in our guild as well.

My armory - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ircle&n=Rhodas

A recent parse of a 20-man ToC we did the other night after wiping on Putricide

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/k0k0r...m/healingDone/

I'm not going to flame anyone, or do any bitching about which spec is better. I just want people to see an armory and a parse of a FoL build Paladin, and decide

for themselves whether or not they would like to pursue it. It's definitely great to have BOTH a HL Paladin and a FoL paladin in 25's.

Ask questions/criticize me, please.

this is very encouraging. i was thinking about trying itmyself but people gt really mean when i made a few posts on wowhead about it. any thoughts on synergy between healers?

[spuddz]

Said the guy who specced 3/3 imp conc aura.

About paragraph #6: There's a *decent* piece of shoulders from marrowgar 25 that trade haste for mp5 + 1 socket, compared to T10. If you feel like your haste levels are high enough then get something else after your head.

Allow me to add:
11) Your gear is wrong, you have hit or spirit on them.

GUH im sick of seeing "freshly" 80 holydins who have Seethe from H FoS. IT HAS HIT WHY DA F*** DO U HAVE IT!!!!! /warlock rage

[roboscorcher]

My HPS is usually 3-5k as a FoL/HS spammer, and I'm lovin it. I never did HL spamming yet, and that's mostly because cast times are twice as long as FoL. I like quick healing, and my crit chance is 70% or more as long as my target has SS.

[Firecrest]

My HPS is usually 3-5k as a FoL/HS spammer, and I'm lovin it. I never did HL spamming yet, and that's mostly because cast times are twice as long as FoL. I like quick healing, and my crit chance is 70% or more as long as my target has SS.

My HL is just over 1.2 seconds. "Twice as long" indeed.

[Allinya]

First off, here's a parse from a raid tonight. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8972&e=9350
I'm a FoL user for the most part.

Even if you're a HL user there's no excuse to not keep the rolling FoL hot on any tank/person with a Sacred Shield up. Especially if you're wearing 4-piece T9, as the hot is doubled. My flashes unbuffed crit at about 7.5k. That alone puts a 15k hot over 12 seconds on someone with a SS.

As for the OP, why on earth do you value MP5 so highly? I value it lower than haste, sp and crit. Int alone takes care of mana issues, as the bigger mana pool we get, the more replenishment affects us. Sure if you can HL spam all fight long kudos to you, but I'm not one to call out for every innervate in the raid just so I can keep HLing. Especially when one FoL puts just as much throughput out there (every 12 seconds): raid buffed without procs I crit FoL around 9k; that's a 27k heal when all is said and done. My HL crits for ~20k, and if the glyph hits all 5 targets, that's a 30k heal. Not that much of a difference. I agree HL is more throughput (since you can obv cast it more than once every 12 seconds), but mixing in the cheap-as-hell FoLs on SS'ed people is more efficient.

It's up to you as a player to figure out how much mana you can afford to dump into HLs on each fight. If you're ending the fight with lots of mana, you should've cast HL more often. If you're OOMing too much, use your more efficient spells and use tricks to get back mana (DP and cut it off after 1-2 ticks, or melee when you can for Seal of Wisdom, etc).

Overall I agree with the OP, but strongly disagree with the value so highly placed on MP5 and HL.
(I ramble, I know.)

[Bisley]

If you think HL spamming is "twice as long" as FoL you are geared incredibly wrong.
If you are at 600~ haste and raid buffed your holy lights should have a cast time around 1.4~ while your FoL is 1.0~ Thats no where near twice as long.

And Seethe is a nice ilvl weapon with a decent amount of int. The hit sword from Ony has more int than most weapons of its ilvl and was actually considered the "best non-hardcore" available weapon until 3.3. hit or spirit gear doesnt necessarily mean you have no idea whats going on. Im personally using frost needle right now. because im the absolute lowest DKP in my guild and have no shot at any real weapons. I could pug ToC and get a sufferings end (which would be a side grade). but I dont have a shot at any heroic mode weapons anymore since my guild only does ICC anymore. I used a spirit sword off auriaya as an upgrade over an ilvl 200 epic at one point too. Granted anyone asking for help in a "omg what i do rong?" type sense that would need to be redirected here probably shouldnt be using spirit/hit, sometimes (if you know what youre doing) you can find them as valid stepping stones to your better upgrades.

MP5 is valued highly because manawise it gives more back than crit does anymore. we have big enough heals to not need to worry about stacking crit. All healing gear (that pallies use) have 2 stats of the three. Haste, crit, mp5. Of the 3, crit is the weakest and haste is "cappable" to an extent.

[roboscorcher]

My HL is just over 1.2 seconds. "Twice as long" indeed.

When you stack haste. I was mostly just talking about using HL in FoL gear. But yeah, if I'm bored and rich I might try out a HL build in the future.

[apokteino]

My HL is just over 1.2 seconds. "Twice as long" indeed.

^^this^^
At somewhere just shy of 1100 haste your HL will be down to a 1.2 second cast. This is Easily doable with the current gear that is out there (assuming you have access to all the gear).

When you stack haste. I was mostly just talking about using HL in FoL gear. But yeah, if I'm bored and rich I might try out a HL build in the future.

A FoL spec/healing style is viable but only if several things are true: 1) You have insanely good gear and your FoL is hitting non-crit for 9-10k. 2) You are the second holy paladin in the raid, and the other one is specced for HL spam 3) It's an encounter that has fairly steady damage on 2 tanks and has relatively minimal raid damage. If these 3 things are true then sure... use a FoL healing style. You can make it "work" and it actually can be a pretty big benefit to the raid in some situations. My guess, though, is that most people who read these forums for advice are no where near ready to truly make the most of a FoL build.

FoL+HS builds are more than adequate for ICC normal, in fact, specced and gemmed properly, you'd could argue it's better.

This, however, is a gross exageration.

[Ryme]

FoL+HS builds are more than adequate for ICC normal, in fact, specced and gemmed properly, you'd could argue it's better.

I've recently gone back and tried it, FoL is critting for around 10k (and it rarely fails to crit), HS around 14-15k. With 2pc T10, high tank damage is taken care of with Divine Illumination (a spell that used to be fairly irrelevant to FoL spammers).

No doubt HL spamming will top out in hard modes, but it's something for the casual guilds to consider.

[mypally]

I think you need to first understand what intellect actually gives a holy paladin

Here is what 100 Intellect gives:
121 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect
1815 Mana at the start of the fight
39.5Mp5 from Divine Plea, if it is used on CD.
18.1Mp5 from Replenishment.
4.7Mp5 from Arcane Torrent, if you are a Blood Elf.
25.3 Spell Power
0.759% Spell Crit

It's not so simple, but it's an all around stat. Of course, if your gear is deficient in one area or another, use your head and gem for the weak areas. But intellect is usually the best way to go straight up.

I was well aware of roughly what it gave holy pallies, but actual numbers help. First off, saying it gives 121 int is kinda pointless, and mathematically confusing, since if 100 int gives 121 int, then shouldn't that 121 int give even more int, eventually we can say 1 int gives infinite int ;D

Anyway, dividing by 10 we get relevant numbers. So a nightmare tier offers 10 int, and no other useful stats, so basically I need to prove that a red/blue gem gives more value then 10 int. I'm assuming the most useful blue/red epic gem would be 15 SP/ 5 Mp5.

The 10 int from the tier gives:
181 Mana
6.21 Mp5
2.53 SP
.0759% Crit

Vs 15 SP/5Mp5

So if im reading this right (and im no expert) then you are saying that 1.21 Mp5 and .0759% crit is worth roughly 12 SP. If that is true, then what the op said stands (it does not take into consideration if someone gemmed a blue or red socket earlier for a bonus, which would then enable someone to gem an int + other colour gem, which would obviously be better)

[Fojos]

No.

Not when you main tank heal, but it's usually ten times more effective on trash.

[lyraorpheus]

its been a while since ive gone holy, but why would +10 stats be better then any gem? str, agi, spirit, and stam are all useless. 10 int is meh. so why not 10 int and 15 stam? or 10 int and 9 or w/e mp5? just seems the nightmares tear is a terrible idea. of course, i could be wrong

the meta needs 1 of each gem.

nightmares = 1 socket, 10 int with another socket +20 int, you get +30 int in 2 sockets.

otherwise, you need 2 sockets, let's say, 10 int and 5 mp5, 10 int and 12 sp gems. so you get total 20 int, and 5mp5, 12sp

sp not good for pally, overhealing too much already. FoL is not optimal raiding spec, just like raid as frost mage.

[goetz401]

My HL is just over 1.2 seconds. "Twice as long" indeed.

don't forget twice as expensive, twice as powerful and one hundred times as likely to be mostly overheal

[lyraorpheus]

My HPS is usually 3-5k as a FoL/HS spammer, and I'm lovin it. I never did HL spamming yet, and that's mostly because cast times are twice as long as FoL. I like quick healing, and my crit chance is 70% or more as long as my target has SS.

you fail too much sir.

with full raid buff, my FoL is about 0.9 sec and holy light is 1.25 sec. cast times are twice as long as FoL?????

edit, i don't stack haste, just too much on gear.

and your FoL is weak, no matter how much sp you stack, your FoL crit will not be more than non-crit holy light. and crit is bad for FoL to regen mana. mp5 is always better since wow came out for FoL.

in addition, with your FoL dot on SS, it doesn't stack and can be kept up for all paladins.

FoL is for noobs because you don't have to watch your mana.

one of the most important skill for healers is to manage mana.

and if you tell me that you need to manage mana when spamming FoL, you'd better stop playing because this game is too hard for you.

[apokteino]

I was well aware of roughly what it gave holy pallies, but actual numbers help. First off, saying it gives 121 int is kinda pointless, and mathematically confusing, since if 100 int gives 121 int, then shouldn't that 121 int give even more int, eventually we can say 1 int gives infinite int ;D

What he was saying is very clear. Int stacks with BoK and is also increased by talents. Don't think too hard.
Also, you should be using a nightmare tear to activate you meta. Generally speaking every other gem you have in your gear should be 20 int. I can't think of any exceptions to that really. If you don't understand why this is:

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond requires a blue and a red gem both to activate the meta, or you can use a Nightmare Tear to satisfy both the red and blue gem color requirements. If you do the math, it is to your advantage to use the tear than to use a Dazzling Eye of Zul and a Luminous Ametrine. The reasoning behind this is 10 intellect (notice I didn't say 12 intellect because that would be much too confusing) is better than both 5 mp5 and 12 spell power.

[jonny1313]

I agree with everything except two things:

1) Speccing into the ret tree is preferred if you're a holy light spammer, straight crit is straight crit. Spec into prot if you're a fol spammer. Divinity is about the only thing worth it, if you're a HL'er. Also if you're the only pally and have no shammies or rogues, heart of the crusader (in the ret tree) is worth it's weight in gold to your raid.

2) Crit > mp5 no matter which spammer you are. If you spam HL, again you need that crit for mana regen. Mp5 for fol spammers doesn't really matter much with the efficiency of fol.

[Firecrest]

Not when you main tank heal, but it's usually ten times more effective on trash.

Cause trash is important enough to spec for.