Tiny Abomination in a Jar, bad, good, or great?

[Dimerock]

Would love to see your supporting math on that

Go to the ret pally forum in EJ.. people have been getting 5 procs in one melee swing as ret

[jontaxe]

Go to the ret pally forum in EJ.. people have been getting 5 procs in one melee swing as ret

Oh good lord. It's exactly this sort of crap with the original lightning capacitor that caused similar issues for casters that we are seeing now. Namely:
1) ridiculously good for some specs for far longer than a "normal" trinket's lifespan
2) the ability to stack "charges" (motes, w/e) far faster than the devs probably imagined.
3) endless forum/wowhead/thottbot comment section whining about which spec/class gained the most from it and therefore who "deserved" it.

They squelched all that nonsense by throttling the mote gain rate on lightning capacitor 3.0 (aka reign of the unliving/dead). I'm really surprised that they would then turn around and release this thing, which goes right back to square 1. A square we saw in Kara, for fuck's sake.

Point? What? Oh, right. The point. The point is that if this thing winds up being ridiculously good for many (or even 1) spec, expect it to get either normalized (probably via internal cooldowns) or just plain nerfed into the dirt. (cfe: rogue poisons as a mere start)

[MrSplash]

A lot of tests are being done on Live right now according to EJ forums with this trinket & Black Bruise via the EnhSim.
I myself would be helping with those tests if I actually had both of those items.

As far as the tests are going, the BB shadow damage procs are also proccing the motes from the Abom Jar.
So with those two items used together, the motes will be proccing even more, making that trinket extremely close to a BiS item.

[Tellaria]

To clear things up a bit:

Fact: Last week, the first people getting TAiaJ observed a very high amount of Mote procs from various sources, including berserking enchant proc, paladin seals, rogue poison procs / applications, weapon imbues, debuff applications, ect ect ect (very long list..). This resulted in the trinket being huge for Mutilate rogues and Ret paladins, and to a lesser extent for Enhancement shamans.

Fact: At one point during the last week, the happy owners of a TAiaJ claim to have observed a significant drop in proc-rates of Motes of Anger, especially for Mutilate Rogues and Retribution Paladins, and to a lesser extent for Enhancement Shamans.

On the blizzard side, developers started being concerned about the proc rates of this trinket... and more generally about proc rates in general, specifically WHAT could allow procs in the game. Since they announced their intention to generalise proc items in cataclysm, the few proc items we currently have in ICC are just the tip of the Iceberg.

Speculation: I can't seem to find a blue post confirming this (if you find one I have missed please quote it ^^) but it seems that the game has recieved a hot-fix in the past week changing script for proc mechanics in game, no longer allowing things like enchants for example be elligible to proc something else (i.e. things like Motes of Anger).


So be extra careful with the tests you link, posts you quote, concerning testing done on this trinket. It seems probable that things have changed since the very first tests done on this trinket... so the data you link MAY very well be obsolete. Only the very latest testing can be considered relevant in this case.


Yes, this trinket used to be absolute uber Best-in-Slot trinket for Muti rogues and Ret pallies, miles ahead of other trinkets. Wether this is still the case though still remains to be proven.

[Deleted]

Also be aware that the trinket in the sim at present is perhaps over-valuing it based on these "extra" procs. More testing is needed so we can clarify exactly what it does actually proc from and make sure the sim is set to mimic that.

[Mazsta]

Just picked it up on server first Prof 25 kill. Will get to teh dummies and see what it looks like.

Mazsta

[Skiball]

Not exactly. Yes, the release would hit for a lot more with a 2h-user, but the motes themselves will build much faster with a DW class, causing an approximately equal amount of damage for each.

True but since this procs on everything a paladin does, it procs nearly as fast as a 1h. Stuff inside of GCDs procs this trinet for ret. I assume it would be similar for a shaman, but with how anything and everything procs it for ret it is as if he was DW.

[myrddinde]

Would love to see your supporting math on that

I posted this a while back with my alt Ret:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-pa...71/#msg2074071

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...?s=2761&e=2971

Average Seal = 2887 Damage

So what damage did TAiaJ do?

31 Manifest Anger = 76700 damage + 31 Seals = 89497 damage

Total = 166197 damage = 7.6% of total damage
7.6% of total dps ~ 790 dps

It is powerful since Ret can get 1-4 motes per swing and it procs a seal which can crit, too ... so about 3500 crit Manifest anger + 5-6k Seal crit as damage. And with Seal of Command on AoE its even more sick.

As enhancement the best it can proc is a MSW proc + offhand flametongue, maybe a static shock. Not sure how it deals with MH procs and WF ... would suck if you get a 50% WF only but well I have not tested that.

I passed the trinket last night to a Ret, because it is just insanely awesome for them. Might take the next one though just to test it

[Oneleg]

Most likely anyone wielding one two hand weapon might be given priority on this item, its absurdly good for a ret paladin... Hard to argue when its BiS for two different specs which one deserves it more, but it would certainly provide a bigger boost to a ret paladin than enhance shaman or any other DW class.

From how it was explained just above it would be BETTER for a DW class, we hit more often = more chances to build mote = more uses overall. In fact I think a rogue would get HUGE use out of this, being that they have a fast offhand to help build motes.

Any melee class will want this for a second trinket, from how it seems to work.

[Izzirez]

This is taken from the log for a full clear of ICC 25, minus Lich King: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zq5qp41ney3m9fu4/

1037 Melee Hits
4533 Melee Crits
57 Blocked Melee hits
1454 Glancing Blows

16441 Total Melee Attacks

385 Windfury Hits
564 Windfury Crits
6 Windfury Blocks

955 Total Windfury Attacks

508 Stormstrike Hits
711 Stormstrike Crits

1219 Total Stormstrike attacks (Odd amount was because 1 offhand attack was absorbed)

235 Lava Lash Hits
354 Lava Lash Crits
2 Lava Lash Blocks

591 Total Lava Lash Attacks

19206 Total Attacks capable of procing Motes of Anger

The logs state that I had 4609 Motes of Anger buffs gained, which translate into 576.125 Manifest Anger procs. Note that I most likely had part of a stack as I came into the instance. I commonly have a 1-7 stack at all times since I almost never end a fight without any motes active.

Some simple math tells me that 4609 / 19206 that I had roughly a 23.998% chance at procing a mote per ability, but this ALSO counts abilities that were proced by the Manifest Anger proc itself.

Additionally, in reality I had:

258 Manifest Anger Hits
354 Manifest Anger Crits
4 Manifest Anger Blocks

616 Total Manifest Anger Attacks

As you can see, I had 616 attacks, but only enough motes to account for 576~ Attacks.

616 * 8 = 4928 Motes that should have been accounted for.

4928 / 19206 = 25.6586% chance per hit to get a mote.

So, from what I can tell, the trinket has a 25%~ chance per melee ability to proc a mote. Note that I messed up and did NOT have imbues on for Marrowgar. Not sure if this would change any of the data I have listed. Most of the time this trinket translates into 1-3% of my total damage, usually leaning closer to 1.4-1.8%.

If anyone wants to perform additional math with my data to show anything else, go ahead. Also, any idea what happened to the missing proc buffs that the logs did not pick up?

[myrddinde]

If anyone wants to perform additional math with my data to show anything else, go ahead. Also, any idea what happened to the missing proc buffs that the logs did not pick up?

As said before, the Manifest Anger acts as melee attack. It procs MSW, and Ft if it procs on offhand. MSW, Lightning Shield, etc is something you have to manually check out. The Manifest Anger is only a part of the benefit you get. There is also the additional hit you have to take into account to value the trinket in total.

[Walktheline]

So it also proccs from FT? White Hits, and WF and SS it will, but what's with FT?

[Feiht]

So it also proccs from FT? White Hits, and WF and SS it will, but what's with FT?

No, it will not proc FROM Flametongue as it only procs a mote from melee attacks.

It will however, Proc a Flametongue attack as the additional attack generated is considered a Melee attack.

The way it works is whichever Weapon Procs the 8th (or 7th with Heroic) mote THAT weapon will generate an additional 50% attack. This attack has the Chance to proc everything the Generating Weapon can.

So if its the MH then it can also proc WF (provided its off CD) and if its the OH then will proc FT, in addition to everything else a MELEE strike is capable of procing.

The only thing i'm not certain of is whether or not the generated strike is capable of procing a Mote...and honestly i don't see why it wouldn't.

[gherkin]

Providing it's sealed correctly, the contents of the Jar will never go bad.

[Izzirez]

No, it will not proc FROM Flametongue as it only procs a mote from melee attacks.

It will however, Proc a Flametongue attack as the additional attack generated is considered a Melee attack.

The way it works is whichever Weapon Procs the 8th (or 7th with Heroic) mote THAT weapon will generate an additional 50% attack. This attack has the Chance to proc everything the Generating Weapon can.

So if its the MH then it can also proc WF (provided its off CD) and if its the OH then will proc FT, in addition to everything else a MELEE strike is capable of procing.

The only thing i'm not certain of is whether or not the generated strike is capable of procing a Mote...and honestly i don't see why it wouldn't.

Tested for about an hour of getting it to a 5-7 stack and then turning to lava lash to proc the last mote. Never saw a manifest anger proc a mote, but this was only an hour of testing, about 100 manifest anger procs.