*facepalm* Please stop asking who's gonna roll on what...

[Omedon]

Ok, I know I'm likely opening myself up to be flamed into next week, but for the love of the baby Jesus, people, realize that the following question is a stupid thing to ask in a random dungeon:

"Hey guys, I'm only here for X, anyone else here for that?"

Realize that it is not in anyone's best interest to answer that question to the affirmative (I almost always tell my group this "don't answer, just run the place"), as it's just not something you ask. Particularly if you're the tank, no one wants to promote your departure due to you not getting your precious oldschool dibs run. Old school is old, welcome to 3.3, the world of the "20% guarantee".

The dungeon finder purposely makes no distinctions between your main or offspec, as it relates to loot. This has been covered in a gzillion other threads, so I'm not gonna harp on it here. Run your dungeon, hope your item drops, and roll. Remember no one can "take" your loot from you, they can only "throw down" next to you, so generate oppurtunities, hope for the best and, if need be, try again tomorrow, or, in the case of, say, reg-TOC farming (from which this pet peeve was born), in another 15 mins.

Good luck, and have fun.

[Gerina]

oh QQ, sounds like a whine thread to me.

non the less heroics are easy and the loot is so easy to obtain that you shouldn't care about it.

guild runs ftw?

[Omedon]

I can totally see why you'd think this was a QQ thread, I'll elaborate.

I'm healing TOC, tank says "I"m here for black heart, anyone else here for that?"

I (Priest) give my usual "You know, it's not in anyone's best interest to answer that, let's just run the instance."

Tank says "Guess I'm leaving now then."

Tank leaves

I leave, and feel sorry for the DPS, one of which was a DK who, smartly, stayed quiet.

To support Gerina: Guild runs FTW. Last night we took 5 guildies to grind the crap outta reg garfrost for a pair of two-ton-hammers for his new-80 fury warrior, because we can.

It is not the PUG community's place to provide dibs runs, when you click the eye, you are disclaiming acceptance of NBG's worst case scenario, so please, embrace the 20% guarantee, throw down, and good luck.

[diffuzi0n]

four tons of hammer

awsnap

[dotSeed]

How dare someone be upfront that they only need a single item, and don't want to waste 10-15mins and then have the frustration of someone else need it. Probably for their off-spec too.

Making a sandwich and hot drink > Frustration.

[Inamorta]

How dare someone be upfront that they only need a single item, and don't want to waste 10-15mins and then have the frustration of someone else need it. Probably for their off-spec too.

Making a sandwich and hot drink > Frustration.

It's called selfishness. Something WoW has taught us all well.

If you're not guaranteed personal gratification, you're not going to do it, right?

[loop not defined]

How dare someone be upfront that they only need a single item, and don't want to waste 10-15mins and then have the frustration of someone else need it. Probably for their off-spec too.

Making a sandwich and hot drink > Frustration.

How DARE someone roll need on YOUR item! Have they no shame! /harumph

I've got an idea: try running the dungeon solo. That'll teach 'em, right?

[Omedon]

How DARE someone roll need on YOUR item! Have they no shame! /harumph

I've got an idea: try running the dungeon solo. That'll teach 'em, right?

LOL

You, I like.

[dotSeed]

It's called selfishness. Something WoW has taught us all well.

If you're not guaranteed personal gratification, you're not going to do it, right?

How DARE someone roll need on YOUR item! Have they no shame! /harumph

I've got an idea: try running the dungeon solo. That'll teach 'em, right?

You both seem to be under the impression that the majority of people that play this game aren't dicks. No, I won't to tank for you if after fifteen minutes you need on an upgrade, either to sell it or for off-spec. Not everyone has twenty hours a week they can waste re-running things hoping that people aren't douches.

You also seem to think I'm against competition. Leaving because another DPS wants a strength ring is being a dick, leaving because someone in another role says they want an item you're there specifically to get, for your main role, is smart.

[Omedon]

You both seem to be under the impression that the majority of people that play this game aren't dicks. No, I won't to tank for you if after fifteen minutes you need on an upgrade, either to sell it or for off-spec. Not everyone has twenty hours a week they can waste re-running things hoping that people aren't douches.

You also seem to think I'm against competition. Leaving because another DPS wants a strength ring is being a dick, leaving because someone in another role says they want an item you're there specifically to get, for your main role, is smart.

20% guarantee man (at worst case)

Take your guild, or embrace the 20%.

Here's how I run instances. I recently healed a steady stream of TOC's for my now well loved abyssal rune (for my main spec, shadow), if I saw casters, anyone with a mana bar, I realized every one of them could roll. Then I proceed with the correct amount of anticipation.

1/5 full, not 4/5 empty.

[rabbimojo]

You both seem to be under the impression that the majority of people that play this game aren't dicks. No, I won't to tank for you if after fifteen minutes you need on an upgrade, either to sell it or for off-spec. Not everyone has twenty hours a week they can waste re-running things hoping that people aren't douches.

You also seem to think I'm against competition. Leaving because another DPS wants a strength ring is being a dick, leaving because someone in another role says they want an item you're there specifically to get, for your main role, is smart.

What about people in my situation? My tank character has nothing left in heroics for her tank set, like many other tanks. However, I am interested in finishing my dps set, which could still use, e.g., the oh-so-dramatic scorpion trinket out of HFoS. I need the set because pugs don't always need a tank. Should I run as a dpser and just suffer through bad tanks because DPSers don't feel it's fair for me to roll on the item?

In my experience, about 10% of dpsers "deserve" the loot they get. Most DPS are just mooching off the skills of the tank and/or healer.

I generally will not take items for my offset if they're an upgrade for a dpser in the group, -if- that DPSer pulled his or her weight. If I feel they could have put out more damage for their gear, then I'll roll on it myself. Everyone's in the run, and everyone needs more gear. If I wait until it drops and nobody in the group needs that trinket, I will probably never get it. Heck, I've only seen it once in the 50+ HFoS runs I've done. I understand it's frustrating for DPSers, but that's the game for ya.

[loop not defined]

You both seem to be under the impression that the majority of people that play this game aren't dicks. No, I won't to tank for you if after fifteen minutes you need on an upgrade, either to sell it or for off-spec. Not everyone has twenty hours a week they can waste re-running things hoping that people aren't douches.

I average about two to three dungeons a week. It's still not that big of a deal.

You also seem to think I'm against competition. Leaving because another DPS wants a strength ring is being a dick, leaving because someone in another role says they want an item you're there specifically to get, for your main role, is smart.

It's not uncommon to meet people who play Tank or Healer, not because they enjoy the role, but because they absolutely despise loot competition. By the way, I'm specced for PvE tank and PvE DPS. I really don't mind if someone rolls need on off-spec gear I could have used.

As a courtesy, I'll defer loot to someone that is filling a role that benefits from it. I don't demand this from others because I realise that if they're rolling on it, they are going to use it (unless they're vendoring it....but these people are few and far between).

[Omedon]

It's not uncommon to meet people who play Tank or Healer, not because they enjoy the role, but because they absolutely despise loot competition.

Hehe my "pocket healer" is like this. We were the core tank and healer for our little 5-man circle for the longest time. She is a stringent believer in "only roll on current spec", only ran with friends who agreed with that philosophy, will only do 5-mans, and will only heal... you do the math.

When the dungeon finder came out, I knew that blizz was saying "main spec, off spec, it's all good, throw down!", which I loved and she hated. Now both my specs are nicely set up, and I queue for the role I enjoy in PUGs (generally my main spec, tanking, I reserve for friends and gulidies), rolling on whatever my character needs, regardless of spec. Because that's how blizzard clearly intended it, or they would have tied your loot rights to that little icon next to your face.

Anyway, back on topic. No one can tell you "not to" roll on something where your dice comes up, so just assume they will. 1/5 full, not 4/5 empty. Most explanation I'll give is after I've clicked, ("Needing for offspec", not a question) to inform them why I did so. If someone asks me to proclaim my loot desires ahead of time, clearly I'm one of those players who's not too adept at english. I need them (and they need me) to stick around to make the loot drop, after all.

[Fenixdown]

I agree with the OP. If you are there for one particular drop, under any circumstance, and it bothers you that someone else may be there for the same item in your PuG, do NOT PuG. Get the guild to run it with you.

I was doing heroic HoR for the OH because I had the hilt mace but nothing to fill my OH slot. I didn't leave a group if I saw a warlock, mage, or shadow priest in my group that looked like they needed it as well.

Also, I was running heroic PoS for the caster DPS trinket for my offspec. Upon entering the instance, I would ask the following question.

"I would like to roll on the trinket from the last boss for my dualspec. Is that okay?"

I never once had someone tell me no, and I even had someone roll against me for it. It didn't bother me.

Seriously, people. It's just heroics. Good lord, man, chill with the nerdrage on garbage epics that are there just as filler pieces and nothing else.

[Omedon]

Also, I was running heroic PoS for the caster DPS trinket for my offspec. Upon entering the instance, I would ask the following question.

"I would like to roll on the trinket from the last boss for my dualspec. Is that okay?"

I never once had someone tell me no, and I even had someone roll against me for it. It didn't bother me.

Thank you for your response, I only have one question.

Why did you ask?

What if they said "no"? It can happen, I've seen that happen, and my response (as the third party, to the nay-sayer) was "I believe NBG disagrees with you, sir". Because it does. That's what you buy into by clicking the DF. I know that, on that point, I'm preaching to the choir with you, but my question remains: why did you ask? It's not like it matters if someone says "no", as a matter of fact, asking could slow the group down, when the person wanting a dibs run (not you) leaves on you.

The drama mamas on WoW.com did a good column on this ( http://www.wow.com/2010/01/08/drama-...ice/#continued ) and if you look in the comments you can see I agreed with everything they said except for the advice to spend forever talking about loot. The conversation is coded, and the answer is an "everybody wins" NBG that, from level 60 on, eliminates the true ninjas (plate rolling on... I dunno... cloth to vendor, or something), so why impose some code of understanding that can just generate drama? Run with the rules put in place by the game, they're not that bad, honest!

Its not like this is cross-server raiding with an anonymous cross-server master looter... *shudder*.

So, ya, short version... why ask? Blizzard has purposely coded a loot system designed to necessitate minimal communication... because they can't make you communicate.

I'm curious, not being snarky, maybe you can help me understand the drama mamas' advice.

[Sidonis]

If you want something bad enough you'll find 4 other people to run it with you that won't be rolling on it. If you're willing to try and get it via the DF, it's fair game to anyone that can roll on it in NBG.

[Omedon]

If you want something bad enough you'll find 4 other people to run it with you that won't be rolling on it. If you're willing to try and get it via the DF, it's fair game to anyone that can roll on it in NBG.

Precisely!

This is exactly what my aforementioned "pocket healer" did for some of her drops. It was funny watching her do it, and I helped her, but I was geared at about the same pace as her, just "trying again tomorrow" with PUGs.

[Deleted]

I'll go with the opposition. I think it's a legitimate question. The drop rates for a particular item are low enough, the world full of greedy people and on top of that a 24h lockout for heroics.

So it's the only way to skew the rng a little in your favor.

[Omedon]

I'll go with the opposition. I think it's a legitimate question. The drop rates for a particular item are low enough, the world full of greedy people and on top of that a 24h lockout for heroics.

So it's the only way to skew the rng a little in your favor.

Is it efficient at the risk of hours on deserter status, and, heaven forbid, DPS queue times though?

Again, I whole heartedly believe that blizz built this to have the loot available to both specs.

I mean... look at the community expectations for tanks... Letting you roll "only as a tank when tanking" would just worsen the tank shortage. The community is hard enough on "up and coming" tanks as is, they NEED the option to "come in geared" after a tour of duty DPSing and rolling on tank gear.

I said to a guy today who asked "can I need for offspec?" the following:

"If the dice are there, yes you can. Offspec is so 2009, good luck!"

No one chose to disagree with me.

[Raptorg]

How DARE someone roll need on YOUR item! Have they no shame! /harumph

I've got an idea: try running the dungeon solo. That'll teach 'em, right?

Not a bad idea, actually..