Blatantly Breeding Brainless Baddies

[Deleted]

This post... A lot .... silly...

Anyhoos, yeah leveling has gotten easier, and I can only say that's nice... Coz it's daaamn boring to level, if we did it all Oh-da-vanille-style, fuck that shit. I like how it is to level now a days, it's easy and relaxing, as it should. Then for the gear, yeah it's nice to get gear fast, coz it's nice to be able to raid as soon as possible!

Now for the players, yeah.... well... if players don't learn their class while leveling they are more dumb than a piece of used napkin... It's not hard to learn your class god dammit, there are billion of sites out there that will tell you in details, even a dude on youtube.com telling the basics of the classes, IF you really need it that bad, either way, its not hard to learn your class, it really isn't. It just takes that people want to get a grip, and take it as an advice when other people say "you are doing baaaad, baaaad dps, bad dps, shoo"...

I know there are a lot of bitches out there that loves how vanilla is, well go back and play vanilla. I'm not saying I'm a big fan of WotLK compared to BC... But at least enjoy the luxury you have now, and it's nice... just see it...

/didn't mean to offend anyone, just find all this... waste

[Ganoes]

Most people level in dungeons now actually.

[Dakia]

I may not agree with every exact point the OP is making, but I surely agree with his line of thinking.

No, this doesn't make me elitist.

[Bluey111]

This guy sounds like one of those YOU GEARSCORE IS TOO LOW NO INVITE.

If you don't like them DONT PUG

There are more then 2 groups of people then the "Hardmode Guildies" and the "Fillers" there are casual players that actually do better then some hardcore guilds, you neglect to mention them?

Cataclysm will introduce harder quests for the newbies, i think they are only making things easier now so people can have a chance at experiencing the WotLK content before its dried up and useless

[Trucidor]

No, I'm sorry, you folks are confusing the issue.

If you haven't read all the spells in your spellbook, you are a terrible player.

Maybe you get 3rd in dps, but you probably also have 2nd or 3rd in damage taken, 1-3rd in friendly fire, bounce arcane blast off spell reflects instead of spellstealing them (I didn't know! Blizz never made me quest for it QQ!), wasting healers mana (at least blizz made healers have too much mana, which I think is the real problem these days, it's too easy to heal things and therefore everyone just expects the healer to do all the work), and generally being terrible.

Recount meters don't measure un-terribleness. I'd wager that not realizing that you even have key features of your class because you didn't look in your spellbook to see everything you have access to, and dare I say, expecting someone else to show you how (I.E. more quests to babysit me through playing the game please, Blizz! from the OP) instead of just, I don't know, reading the damn screen......well, that probably does make you terrible, and in fact explains most of what the fuck is wrong with people on WoW these days.

Pretty much agree. The debate about heroics and "free t9" and whatever else is besides the point, and is a debate that will never be settled.

But I do agree that the ease of leveling and lack of class quests are leading to more people steamrolling their way through to 80, and then showing up on the end-game scene only knowing how to spam a couple buttons and collect loot. Once they start queuing for heroics, that doesn't change, since there's a good bet they'll be grouped with 5k+ gs players who carry them, allowing them to steamroll that content.

They'll do that for a few weeks, and by the time they have the gear to step into raids, it's a rude awakening when you actually have to be aware of your surroundings and make use of abilities that you may have rarely (or never) used in the past. When that happens, some will pick themselves up off the mat, go learn what they're doing wrong, and become an above average or good player. I'm afraid that seems to be a small minority, though.

[seam]

That's what we are doing now.

Chances for a new player to become one day a good player are slim.

1) Levelling is easy as hell. All 'difficult' solo quests have been made so easy with direct (less adds, or no elite status) or indirect nerfs (like new talents) that we can honestly say levelling alone (which is what most new players will do 99% of the time) doesn't teach you much.


Ex: A friend, not especially bad, recently discovered he could stop a fear with his warrior skill. He had already tanked Ulduar and ToC25. Also that disarming a hunter mob would force it to follow you. There are hundreds of people like him. They're not stupid, they just never needed to think about what they were doing. Whack-a-mole all the way up to 80.

Same as Classic. Most people who raided didn't even know of all their abilities, let alone use them.

2) Dungeons don't teach you anything. They don't teach you crowd control (except 3 or 4 pulls during HoR, making it 'so hard').
They don't teach you rotation because boss die faster than mobs in Scholo60. They don't teach you targetting, just AoE, and if you single target, who cares if it's the tank target or not.
They don't teach you positioning or movement, healer is there to save you whatever happens. Even for the healer it''s easy since the tank usually takes no damage at all.

Ex: Last Occulus I did as healer, damage was spread among the Ret, the DK, the Lock and the bear. Second boss no one moved out of the purple rays - healer will take care of that.
Third boss everyone stays in the ice, and don't even hide from the arcane blast. And stay in the ice even after the boss death. Still only one dies (and I'm not a great healer, just an offspec to shorten the waiting time...). And blames me (sure it's my fault I don't play amazingly enough to overcome his badness).
What makes it even worst is that they were standard 2k dps with a 35k PV bear. Nothing expectional, even 'low end' nowadays. You can go 50% above that with badge gear easily.

Still no wipe and 20 min achievement (the last one I got pre-nerf, a pain)

Result: You see people complaining here about how bad some players are. The truth is: they never had a single chance to improve. It might only start with raiding, if they ever raid.

Raids at 60 didn't teach you anything, other than you could go on follow and no one would notice. Almost no one who didn't raid knew any kind of rotation. Hell, a lot who did raid didn't know their rotation. It was just "Spam spell A" or "Dots up, then shadow bolt"

Average players are slowly disappearing. PVE-wise there are two categories, and the gap between them is widening.

- First one are members of the few Hard Mode raiding guilds of your server, where you need to be good. Or they're one of the players 'carrying' a raid with 50% of half-decent players just there to fill in, 'better than nothing' cannon fodder since they'll stand in the fire and loosing them will not impact the overall dps too much.

- Second one are just there hanging around, AoEing through heroics, leaving after the first wipe in HoR, joining 25-normal raids to fill in (see above).

It's still working today, the ratio still allows it. But if 10 players retire from pool 1, the replacement ones will be 1 for pool 1 and 9 for pool 2.
And the gap will become so huge raid content will need even stronger nerfs for the masses to enjoy it.

TLDR: There is no hope for harder stuff, trivial content will be even further trivialized and I don't think the expansion will do any good.

So, basicly the same as people who just did 5 mans and the people who did 40 mans? Your point? Oh, and lol at content just being trivialized, it was never hard to begin with.

--
A 'decent' player, feeling way too much above average those days.

Remember that mage who always did horrible damage, bottom of the meter, but got all the mage loot because he was friends with the GM?

Oh, right, you didn't play classic. Well, yeah. You had those people, and people who AFK'd through stuff and expected loot.

Only reason 40 mans were hard was due to needing to effectively 25-30 man it.

[sulfuric]

Congrats, you just described what leveling through vanilla WoW and TBC was like.

Uh absolutely not, I think leveling a warrior without a friend in vanilla was one of the most challenging and patience testing endeavors I have ever encountered in this game, and I have been up and down the extreme difficulty path of raiding and pvp for four years.

You could do this in Vanilla, it was called 40 man raids, sure somebody died instead of get healed, but they were there to be red shirsts for your core of 15 people.

This reaks of someone who played the game well beyond "months behind" and on the nerfed end of every instance he saw, believe it or not vanilla raiding was actually a challenge at least raiding anywhere between 1 week to two months after the content was released.

Did you know roughly 20% of all WoW players were called huntards during vanilla for one very simple reason. Hunter was and still is a class that you can bring to maximum level by pressing pet attack and autoshot buttons. Leveling was never hard, it just took whole lot more time.

Taking a lot of time for most intents and purposes is the very definition of "hard". It's like saying attending college and becoming a doctor is not hard, it just takes a whole lot of time

Same as Classic. Most people who raided didn't even know of all their abilities, let alone use them.
Raids at 60 didn't teach you anything, other than you could go on follow and no one would notice. Almost no one who didn't raid knew any kind of rotation. Hell, a lot who did raid didn't know their rotation. It was just "Spam spell A" or "Dots up, then shadow bolt"

This is insanity, I learned EVERYTHING from what I did in classic. I was a tank learning to swap threat WITHOUT taunt and WITHOUT a threat meter, the kind of skill and mechanic understanding required to do that is extremely high. Try tanking a world dragon when you have 5 or more stacks of http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=24818 you need to know EVERY single abilities threat value and use them because they will be on cooldown forever and you have a raid of people to hold agro from, all while manipulating a dragon keeping yourself alive and keeping the raid intact. I have no idea how you people always say Vanilla was /afk follow the healer unless you simply raided MONTHS BEHIND.

Remember that mage who always did horrible damage, bottom of the meter, but got all the mage loot because he was friends with the GM?
Oh, right, you didn't play classic. Well, yeah. You had those people, and people who AFK'd through stuff and expected loot.
Only reason 40 mans were hard was due to needing to effectively 25-30 man it.

I played classic, I bathed in it and yeah I did see players getting special treatment because of guild corruption it happens all the time just look at any girl who raids in this game and chances are she's getting things handed to her left and right as well, this has no point in this thread or what the original poster was speaking about. Try to 25-30 man Viscidus, reverse bug family, twins, C'thun, all of naxx, hell even BWL. I have to ask you if YOU played vanilla and after how many nerfs did you experience the content?

[Risura]

Most people level in dungeons now actually.

This I found is actually quite true.

For all Blizzards intention was for the quests to be the essential part of leveling from 70-80, with the introduction of the heirloom items and now the cross realm LFG tool I went over those 10 levels in about half the time by just sitting in LFG.

I could be quite easily thrown into the "baddies" category, especially now as I do not raid, if it were not for my willingness to go outside the game, read up on my class(s), and the basic understanding that the red/green/blue stuff will kill me.

[seam]

Uh absolutely not, I think leveling a warrior without a friend in vanilla was one of the most challenging and patience testing endeavors I have ever encountered in this game, and I have been up and down the extreme difficulty path of raiding and pvp for four years.

Speaking of someone who played the game well beyond "months behind" and on the nerfed end of every instance he saw, believe it or not vanilla raiding was actually a challenge at least raiding anywhere between 1 week to two months after the content was released.

I leveled a prot warrior and holy priest. Both completly solo with no instances in classic.

You don't know challenge.

As for months behind, I had everything* dead in BWL first week, caring at least 10 people. It was never hard.


*Not counting the lazer dog and Nef, they were bugged >_>

[renox_uk]

Intentionally Inciting Idle Ignorance.

That's what this thread is doing now.

[Daginni]

That's why, instead of calling them "Baddies", help them learn. If you see someone doing something bad in a LFG Group, just say hey, your pulling aggro, Feign Death please.

[sulfuric]

I leveled a prot warrior and holy priest. Both completly solo with no instances in classic.

You don't know challenge.

As for months behind, I had everything* dead in BWL first week, caring at least 10 people. It was never hard.


*Not counting the lazer dog and Nef, they were bugged >_>

What class did you raid as? Certainly not the prot warrior

[sulfuric]

That's why, instead of calling them "Baddies", help them learn. If you see someone doing something bad in a LFG Group, just say hey, your pulling aggro, Feign Death please.

Telling someone something they do not want to hear, to use something they do not understand or even have keybound isn't exactly a fruitful endeavor.

[seam]

What class did you raid as? Certainly not the prot warrior

Nah, I did a single MC as my warrior and quit him.

I raided as a Lock, and Priest. Changed as the guild needed.

[sulfuric]

Well that's probably why you did not feel the content was challenging :P

[Gron]

It's what happens when the gear that is available (which you must agree is the best gear around to date, it's the last major content patch.) makes heroics so easy, that you can cough on everything. It's understandable though, because it's introductory content and was made available more than a YEAR ago.

Bad, bad, heroics were always easy, even in quest blues you breezed through them without a wipe. I started doing achievements day one I hit 80. Back in the "old days" you had plenty of heroics to test your skills on, and some were hard even in T6, as it was a combination of skill + gear.

Btw raids followed the same pattern of becoming blant and not needing much skill on normal modes.

Lets wait and see what Cataclysm brings. For now, at least ICC is fun - the only worthwile raid in expansion.

[torny]

That's why, instead of calling them "Baddies", help them learn. If you see someone doing something bad in a LFG Group, just say hey, your pulling aggro, Feign Death please.

Last time i told a mage after he died from aggro that mirror image isn't a dps spell.. but rather a way to avoid getting aggro..

"Stfu elitist ass go !@#$ yourself"

And no i wasn't being impolite :/

[Unholyground]

Blizzard knows of all the bad shit going on and they are trying to find ways to fix it.

[Xikem]

About thr badge gear.....why is it so wrong to want a new player to catch up or an alt to be good enough to raid? Hell if it was still like tbc or vanilla 70% of the player base would still be doing naxx or just starting ulduar. The badge system was a ray of light to those of us that either got the game later, altaholics, or people who just started out. Is it so wrong that you can have t9 gear in a couple of weeks? Hell it makes it easier to get the endgame raids going because you have a wider amount of qualified people ( whether they are compitent is up to them ). And you may trash it but deep down you all know you love it.

[seam]

Well that's probably why you did not feel the content was challenging :P

Says the rogue? :P

I will admit to one thing though, which I hope they change.

Healing is a joke compared to what it once was. There, you happy? You finally got me to admit something was harder in Classic D:

And mainly this is due to mana. Damn infinite mana pools >_>

Tanking isnt easier so much as less annoying, but I didn't tank anything past a single MC sooo.