Prot Pally *Edited*

[Testrum]

Holy (5 Points)

Seals of the Pure - Rank 5/5
Increases the damage done by your Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption and their Judgement effects by 15%.

Protection (59 Points)

Divinity - Rank 5/5
Increases all healing done by you and all healing effects on you by 5%.

Divine Strength - Rank 5/5
Increases your total Strength by 15%.

Anticipation - Rank 5/5
Increases your chance to dodge by 5%.

Divine Sacrifice - Rank 1/1
30% of all damage taken by party members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin (up to a maximum of 40% of the Paladin's health times the number of party members). Damage which reduces the Paladin below 20% health will break the effect. Lasts 10 sec.

Improved Righteous Fury - Rank 3/3
While Righteous Fury is active, all damage taken is reduced by 6%.

Toughness - Rank 5/5
Increases your armor value from items by 10% and reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 30%.

Divine Guardian - Rank 2/2
When Divine Sacrifice is actived, your party and raid members within 30 yards take 20% reduced damage for 6 sec. In addition, increases the duration of your Sacred Shield by 100% and the amount absorbed by 20%.

Improved Devotion Aura - Rank 3/3
Increases the armor bonus of your Devotion Aura by 50% and increases the amount healed on any target affected by any of your Auras by 6%.

Blessing of Sanctuary - Rank 1/1
Places a Blessing on the friendly target, reducing damage taken from all sources by 3% for 10 min and increasing strength and stamina by 10%. In addition, when the target blocks, parries, or dodges a melee attack the target will gain 2% of maximum displayed mana. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time.

Sacred Duty - Rank 2/2
Increases your total Stamina by 8%, reduces the cooldown of your Divine Shield and Divine Protection spells by 60 sec.

One-Handed Weapon Specialization - Rank 3/3
Increases all damage you deal when a one-handed melee weapon is equipped by 10%.

Spiritual Attunement - Rank 2/2
A passive ability that gives the Paladin mana when healed by other friendly targets' spells. The amount of mana gained is equal to 10% of the amount healed.

Holy Shield - Rank 1/1
Increases chance to block by 30% for 10 sec and deals 274 Holy damage for each attack blocked while active. Each block expends a charge. 8 charges.

Ardent Defender - Rank 3/3
Damage that takes you below 35% health is reduced by 20%. In addition, attacks which would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to 30% of your maximum health (amount healed based on defense). This healing effect cannot occur more often than once every 2 min.

Redoubt - Rank 3/3
Increases your block value by 30% and damaging melee and ranged attacks against you have a 10% chance to increase your chance to block by 30%. Lasts 10 sec or 5 blocks.

Combat Expertise - Rank 3/3
Increases your expertise by 6, total Stamina and chance to critically hit by 6%.

Touched by the Light - Rank 3/3
Increases your spell power by an amount equal to 60% of your Strength and increases the amount healed by your critical heals by 30%.

Avenger's Shield - Rank 1/1
Hurls a holy shield at the enemy, dealing [1100 + 0.07 * SPH + 0.07 * AP] to [1344 + 0.07 * SPH + 0.07 * AP] Holy damage, Dazing them and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects 3 total targets. Lasts 10 sec.

Guarded by the Light - Rank 2/2
Reduces spell damage taken by 6% and gives a 100% chance to refresh the duration of your Divine Plea when you hit an enemy. In addition, your Divine Plea spell is 100% less likely to be dispelled.

Shield of the Templar - Rank 3/3
Reduces all damage taken by 3% and grants your Avenger's Shield a 100% chance to silence your targets for 3 sec.

Judgements of the Just - Rank 2/2
Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Justice by 10 sec, increases the duration of your Seal of Justice effect by 1 sec and your Judgement spells also reduce the melee attack speed of the target by 20%.

Hammer of the Righteous - Rank 1/1
Hammer the current target and up to 2 additional nearby targets, causing 4 times your main hand damage per second as Holy damage.

Retribution (7 Points)

Deflection - Rank 5/5
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

Improved Judgements - Rank 2/2
Decreases the cooldown of your Judgement spells by 2 sec.

Glyphs

Glyph of Divine Plea (Major Glyph)
While Divine Plea is active, you take 3% reduced damage from all sources.

Glyph of Avenger's Shield (Major Glyph)
Your Avenger's Shield hits 2 fewer targets, but for 100% more damage.

Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous (Major Glyph)
Your Hammer of the Righteous hits 1 additional target.

Glyph of Lay on Hands (Minor Glyph)
Reduces the cooldown of your Lay on Hands spell by 5 min.

Glyph of Blessing of Kings (Minor Glyph)
Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings spells by 50%.

Glyph of Blessing of Wisdom (Minor Glyph)
Increases the duration of your Blessing of Wisdom spell by 20 min when cast on yourself.

How does the build and glyphs look? Currently working on a pally, need to know whats good for end game tanking.

[Ronark]

First, use a talent calc :P

Second, for a max TPS/"Cookie cutter" build, go with:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0t...fdxfMzbc:pGZcm

For your last minor it doesnt matter, and for your last Major you can pick either Judgement, Righteous Defense, or (if you feel wild) Salvation.

[Creos Malkor]

I believe it depends on the role you are playing. As an OT, speccing into Divine Sac/Guardian is a great thing, along with Pursuit of Justice. However, as an MT. I reccomend 3/5 Reckoning. While its proc is random, it can increase TPS as well as returns from weapon swings (judgement of light/wis). And PoJ isn't as critical in a main tank role.

Divinity is a waste of talent points for Prot as the 5% increase in healing recieved is usually overheal or negligible. The Key to it all from a threat perspective is getting 3/3 Crusade from the ret tree. 5/5 seals of the pure is great for non-demon, non-undead, non-humanoid mobs. However, as most of the mobs and bosses in ICC and WOTLK in general do fit into these catagories, Crusade becomes the superior talent.

If you are interested in learning more about Prot Paladin tanking and the reasoning behind talent/glyph/item choices, I highly reccomend visiting the guys over at maintankadin. They have several threads and guides that will help you to make the right choices when building a raid-ready toon.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...rb_v=viewforum

Ronark is a great resource and very knowledgable, he and I don't always agree on the "best" of everything but he is a good person to listen to.

[cappytoi]

I believe it depends on the role you are playing. As an OT, speccing into Divine Sac/Guardian is a great thing, along with Pursuit of Justice. However, as an MT. I reccomend 3/5 Reckoning. While its proc is random, it can increase TPS as well as returns from weapon swings (judgement of light/wis). And PoJ isn't as critical in a main tank role.

as a MT you should spec DS+DG, you can quickly enable and remove the DS so you can have +20% dmg reduction (on yourself and raid) for 6 sec, which is better than a 50-100 tps increase.

[balloonknot]

However, as an MT. I reccomend 3/5 Reckoning. While its proc is random, it can increase TPS as well as returns from weapon swings (judgement of light/wis).

huh?

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p521965

reckoning is a poor threat talent if your maintanking and 3/5 reckoning is the make or break difference between you holding agro or losing it your either not doing a proper 696 or your hunter/rogue are not properly using MD/TotT.

The damage reduction from Divine Sacrifice -> /cancelaura Divine Sacrifice with 2/2 in divine guardian is a much better talent to have while maintanking.

[Offhand]

This is the spec you want to use for tanking.

You got 1 open major and 1 open minor. Exactly what you choose is up to you.

SoV glyph wasn't included in your build. It's way better single target threat then judge.

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

First, use a talent calc :P

Second, for a max TPS/"Cookie cutter" build, go with:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0t...fdxfMzbc:pGZcm

May I ask why you have 2/2 Imp Judgements when 1/2 is all that's needed to maintain the 6969 rotation?

Btw, thanks for suggesting Salvation, I'm adding that right away. With the Tier 10 2P bonus I have threat out the wazoo anyway.

[Deleted]

May I ask why you have 2/2 Imp Judgements when 1/2 is all that's needed to maintain the 6969 rotation?

Because Benediction and Imp. Might are useless?
Whilst Imp. Judgement can at least make your rotation more smooth depending on lag and help in "PvP"?

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

Because Benediction and Imp. Might are useless?
Whilst Imp. Judgement can at least make your rotation more smooth depending on lag and help in "PvP"?

Ah, I see.

[Kreth]

huh?

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p521965

reckoning is a poor threat talent if your maintanking and 3/5 reckoning is the make or break difference between you holding agro or losing it your either not doing a proper 696 or your hunter/rogue are not properly using MD/TotT.

The damage reduction from Divine Sacrifice -> /cancelaura Divine Sacrifice with 2/2 in divine guardian is a much better talent to have while maintanking.

I followed your link and it was very interesting and informative. However, you and the person you linked to seem to have different conclusions on the threat value of reckoning. FTA:

"However, perhaps the most startling result is from Reckoning. I've changed the boss base attack speed from 2 to 1 in the code to reflect a more realistic Icecrown boss, which helped increase Reckoning's effectiveness. It now out-threats Conviction point for point, making Conviction our weakest threat talent."

[Offhand]

the person you linked to seem to have different conclusions on the threat value of reckoning. FTA:

"However, perhaps the most startling result is from Reckoning. I've changed the boss base attack speed from 2 to 1 in the code to reflect a more realistic Icecrown boss, which helped increase Reckoning's effectiveness. It now out-threats Conviction point for point, making Conviction our weakest threat talent."

This is true. However, it doesn't change the fact that any build with crusade is the maximum possible threat build. Putting points into reckoning involves either dropping crusade (an overall loss in threat) or losing mitigation and tanking talents like DS/DG. Conviction is weak, and optional. You only spend 3 points in it max, or none at all in some builds.

[Llunai]

This is the spec you want to use for tanking.

You got 1 open major and 1 open minor. Exactly what you choose is up to you.

SoV glyph wasn't included in your build. It's way better single target threat then judge.

lol @ skipping a great mitigation talent to put points in useless crit.

[Aedh]

This is true. However, it doesn't change the fact that any build with crusade is the maximum possible threat build. Putting points into reckoning involves either dropping crusade (an overall loss in threat) or losing mitigation and tanking talents like DS/DG. Conviction is weak, and optional. You only spend 3 points in it max, or none at all in some builds.

Irony much?

You picked up conviction, our currently weakest threat talent, instead of vindication, an awesome "mitigation" talent, but yet talk about how you give up too much "mitigation" if you pick up reckoning.

Vindication is about as optional as JotJ.
Just because someone else can supply the debuffs doesnt mean you skip it. People die.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0t...fdxfMzbc:pGZcm

This would a much better "mitigation" build.

SoC is semi optional, it's great for trash, and you give up 1% crit, which is again a weak threat stat/talent.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0x...dxfMzbc:pGkcmz

Is what I am using currently.

I'll probably ditch reckoning when I start tanking raids seriously again and find myself running into raid wide situations of people needing to not die.

[Offhand]

Irony much?

You picked up conviction, our currently weakest threat talent, instead of vindication, an awesome "mitigation" talent, but yet talk about how you give up too much "mitigation" if you pick up reckoning.

Vindication is about as optional as JotJ.

lol @ skipping a great mitigation talent to put points in useless crit.

Vindication is a raid debuff. For me, it's provided by 4 other people, two other tanks bringing an AoE form which is much more useful. By all means take the talent if no one else is but the proc is all but worthless for me, raiding with a bear, prot warrior, and two ret paladins with points to burn.

I even said any number of points in conviction is optional, but it depends on your raid group (as does any other number of buffs/debuffs you could bring).

[Creos Malkor]

as a MT you should spec DS+DG, you can quickly enable and remove the DS so you can have +20% dmg reduction (on yourself and raid) for 6 sec, which is better than a 50-100 tps increase.

I guess I just see it as a choice between increasing TPS and allowing DPS to go all out no matter what while being constantly healed as an MT and increasing mitigation for yourself and the raid at the possible cost of the above. I don't know about you guys, but there are some fights out there where some DPS can push very high, very fast into my threat buffer and the last thing I would want is to be alive and 100k damage done short of a boss kill.

[Aedh]

Cuz no one ever dies right?
And you will always be tanking the same mobs right?

JotJ is a raid debuff also.
Tclap, icy touch, infected wounds all provide the same attack speed reduction.
You not gonna pick that up because you have a bear and a warrior?

If you are going to say "do this because it provides more mitigation than this" and you don't qualify it with, "so long as you have someone else to provide your debuffs for you" don't try to cover your ass by saying " I have 4 dudes to cover me for that"

IF you had said " I don't pick up vindication because etc, which is why I have 3/5 conviction" that would have been better, but you didn't. You didn't even touch on vindication. You just said

This is the spec you want to use for tanking.

[Dragall]

I guess I just see it as a choice between increasing TPS and allowing DPS to go all out no matter what while being constantly healed as an MT and increasing mitigation for yourself and the raid at the possible cost of the above. I don't know about you guys, but there are some fights out there where some DPS can push very high, very fast into my threat buffer and the last thing I would want is to be alive and 100k damage done short of a boss kill.

Very weak argument IMO.

Rets bring the AP debuff. It is the way of things.

[Offhand]

JotJ is a raid debuff also.
Tclap, icy touch, infected wounds all provide the same attack speed reduction.
You not gonna pick that up because you have a bear and a warrior?

Well, JotJ is taken for a number for reasons. Namely:

1) Only 2 people in the raid bring the fully talented version instead of 4. 1 warrior and 1 feral, our DK's are unholy or blood and thus only provide the base level of the debuff.
2) Only one of these is in AoE form, and a short one at that. If they're off tanking adds, it doesn't help me at all.
3) You have points there to spend anyway.
4) JotJ is a much stronger damage reduction talent then vindication.

If you want to refine my statement, I can, but I don't know your raid comp. Vindication is far from necessary in most 25 man raids (as you likely have way more, fully talented sources too). Content lower then that (10 mans, heroics, etc) is largely trivial.

[Creos Malkor]

Very weak argument IMO.

Rets bring the AP debuff. It is the way of things.

um yeah, that was a comment comparing Reck to DS/DG and had nothing to do with vind.

[thrizie]

Vindication does fade sometimes, is very unreliable on anything but your main target.

Much better to have it from another source.