Why NOT to go after 103.2% avoidance

[Moddycss]

I started the topic cus of a major discussion on the trade chat of EU-Eonar yersteday and i just wanna clerify for people why 103.2% avoidance is not a viable goal.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...onar&n=Tankkie

First off i will start with BC.
In BC orange mobs (3+ level above you) could make crushing blows against their target making them take twice the damage. in order to avoid taking crushing blows you needed to avoid every single hit 1 way or another (block dodge parry or miss). the overall % you needed to become uncrushable was TADAA 103.2%.

Now in WotLK blizzard moved crushing blows from 3+ mobs to 4+ mobs because bosses were known as 3+ mobs.
The reason they removed it was because deathknights would be unable to survive a crushing blow like druids and would be unable to achieve 103.2% unless they went for pure avoidance. making them lose loads of health.

Besides it is hard to achieve then when you get 103.2% avoidance you still wont have 103.2% because blizzard added diminishing returns for WotLK to avoid another Sunwell Pleatue (which they failed at) so when you have 103.2% you will maybe only have 70%-80% (not calculated just threw something out).

For WotLK you need to balance health and avoidance. when you have 40k health unbuffed (as a shield wearer) you should have about 65%-70% avoidance (before diminishing). if you have this you will be ICC ready and should be killing ICC bosses. (both 10 and 25 man)

Ty for reading this. I hope people begin to move on from BC tanking cus now that we are in WotLK tanking is much diffrent. warriors now also got AOE tanking abilities. and every tank has the same chance to tank a boss cus they are just about equal in any way they can get without being equal (as blizzard states it)

[trooshott]

hai

[SuperCommander]

Block is not avoidance, topic title is a bit misleading. I don't see why you would like to reach passive uncrushability vs a lvl 84 mob though.

Is it possible?, most likely. Is it possible with the Icecrown Radience?, probably not.

The same scenario happened with the Sunwell Radience in SW. They however did remove CBs from most bosses in sunwell(Probably Twins are the only exception).


Ohh and I don't understand the point of the thread, why would you want 103.4% block+avoidance anyway?, almost like making a thread "Why NOT to socket spirit for troll warriors".

[Slavemaker]

I was not even concerned about this but thank you for clearing this up for me if the question were ever to be raised.

[MrMcFlurry]

First off it's 102.4, not 103.2.
Second it's called being block capped, having a constant flat 2-3k damage reduction on every swing that hits you is a mitigation you shouldn't overlook, and a paladin tank normally aims for that early since their holy shield adds a flat 30% block.
Thirdly, main reason many tanks try to get block capped is that it makes tanking anub adds in ToGC a lot easier as they barely do damage tot he tank in comparison (see second point)
and finally, in ICC - it is harder to get block cap due to the dodge nerf aura and thus far isn't so necessary as before for a pala.

TBH other than for tanking anub adds ive never seen warrior go for the cap

[Moddycss]

well thats exactly the point of the threat. there is no point to reach it. but many old BC players still thinks that they should reach it.

this threat was created to tell people that you dont need to get it

[Ghrim]

I am very sorry, but i do not understand what you want to achieve with this.

I have not met ANY Tank going for 103.2% avoidance (and btw it was 102.4% not 103.2). The reasons are easy:

1. You can't get there. Block is MITIGATION not avoidance, though i agree that it helped "avoiding" crushing blows. Other than that avoidance means AVOIDED hits, aka hits that miss you completely. Paladins aimed for being uncrushable, which was achieved by blocking (not avoiding).

2. Avoidance stacking was viable in Naxx, but starting with Ulduar not one tank (ok, no good one at least) would go for avoidance, as the maximum possible avoidance buffed was around 75% (DKs with 10% parry up) which would result in a rather low health pool and instant wipes as Ulduar bosses started for comparably insane amounts. Therefore up until today EVERY tank is going for EH even with the radiance debuff, which actually favors EH more than before (especially in the form of armor).

So, again..... what is the point of this thread? Pointing something out everyone knows for a year now?

[Moddycss]

First off it's 102.4, not 103.2.
Second it's called being block capped, having a constant flat 2-3k damage reduction on every swing that hits you is a mitigation you shouldn't overlook, and a paladin tank normally aims for that early since their holy shield adds a flat 30% block.
Thirdly, main reason many tanks try to get block capped is that it makes tanking anub adds in ToGC a lot easier as they barely do damage tot he tank in comparison (see second point)
and finally, in ICC - it is harder to get block cap due to the dodge nerf aura and thus far isn't so necessary as before for a pala.

TBH other than for tanking anub adds ive never seen warrior go for the cap

I tanked anub25 adds without being blocked capped. surely it makes it easier but even then it is not nessesary.

[Moddycss]

I am very sorry, but i do not understand what you want to achieve with this.

I have not met ANY Tank going for 103.2% avoidance (and btw it was 102.4% not 103.2). The reasons are easy:

1. You can't get there. Block is MITIGATION not avoidance, though i agree that it helped "avoiding" crushing blows. Other than that avoidance means AVOIDED hits, aka hits that miss you completely. Paladins aimed for being uncrushable, which was achieved by blocking (not avoiding).

2. Avoidance stacking was viable in Naxx, but starting with Ulduar not one tank (ok, no good one at least) would go for avoidance, as the maximum possible avoidance buffed was around 75% (DKs with 10% parry up) which would result in a rather low health pool and instant wipes as Ulduar bosses started for comparably insane amounts. Therefore up until today EVERY tank is going for EH even with the radiance debuff, which actually favors EH more than before (especially in the form of armor).

So, again..... what is the point of this thread? Pointing something out everyone knows for a year now?

as stated in the OP NOT EVERYONE KNOWS IT!! i said a major discussion was about it on my realm and besides that i get whispers almost daily about why i havent gone for the cap. so FAR from many knows it. just all the good players know. but also far from many is good anyways

[Warl]

The only people who go for it are tankadins and only for mostly physical fights. So some people DO go for it, and get to it fairly easily, just not warriors. Try to think outside your own class.

[Ghrim]

Sure it is possible, but no one cared about a block tank at anub25, the fight that mattered was anub25hc, and there a block tank was far superior to druids and especially DKs. But even there it was not necessary to get to 102.4, though it helped.

[Mith]

By good players knowing it, you really mean forum trolls knowing it because they read it 5 posts ago.

[SuperCommander]

I tanked anub25 adds without being blocked capped. surely it makes it easier but even then it is not nessesary.

But this is only true in normal or heroic with 2 tanks separating the adds properly.

[Ghrim]

as stated in the OP NOT EVERYONE KNOWS IT!! i said a major discussion was about it on my realm and besides that i get whispers almost daily about why i havent gone for the cap. so FAR from many knows it. just all the good players know. but also far from many is good anyways

ANY tank who finished Ulduar knows it, ANY tank who finished TOC normal knows it, i would be incredibly surprised if there would be more than a handful of tanks per server not going for EH especially now that every random heroic group demands for 40k tanks and it is nearly impposible to not reach these amounts with heroic + badge gear.

So I still am at my opinion: I don't see the point of this thread.

[Rígr]

if you actually do the math and, and don't just pull a number out your ass, you can see that the number is in fact 102.4%

[Hoopdreams]

I tanked anub25 adds without being blocked capped. surely it makes it easier but even then it is not nessesary.

What I find amusing is that you don't seem to understand it's not normal mode anub adds that the avoidance gear is used for, as well as the fact you haven't downed 25m anub normal mode. gg

[Aelith]

why bother to go for even over 100%.. its madness ( )

however 100% dodge or parry wich isnt even possible anymore, was working, however that was on low levels. block is a mitigation not really an avoidance.

[SuperCommander]

The entire story is a bit unlikely though. Someone asks you why you aren't going for the cap(Sure he didn't mean some other cap like hit cap or exp cap?). And then a DISCUSSION appears in trade, every tank on the server should've shot it down swiftly with saying "Noone is going for block cap".

I do doubt that the Eonar server has many block capped tanks(In their normal setup) and thus that discussion should never have started.

[Ghrim]

why bother to go for even over 100%.. its madness ( )

however 100% dodge or parry wich isnt even possible anymore, was working, however that was on low levels. block is a mitigation not really an avoidance.

Please, if you know even less than the op, don't post.

[MrMcFlurry]

I tanked anub25 adds without being blocked capped. surely it makes it easier but even then it is not nessesary.

Sure it is possible, but no one cared about a block tank at anub25, the fight that mattered was anub25hc, and there a block tank was far superior to druids and especially DKs. But even there it was not necessary to get to 102.4, though it helped.

Thirdly, main reason many tanks try to get block capped is that it makes tanking anub adds in ToGC a lot easier as they barely do damage tot he tank in comparison (see second point)

pretty sure i said togc :< i.e. anub25hc


and it's actually pretty damned easy for a pala to get block cap anyway, most palas who know what they're doing go for it right after getting def cap, though, not so easy in ICC

It was indeed 102.4%. It was, of course, before Avoidance had diminishing returns.

except the values in your paperdoll are in fact the diminished values, they are post DR values, so added up they are still 102.4. don't believe me? try adding a dodge item to yoru current gear, see how much % it gives, then get naked and do the same, you get more while naked than when not = the value is the diminished value . Even if the DRs affected it anyway, that wouldn't give a fixed value as different mitigations diminish differently and depend on your balance.

why bother to go for even over 100%.. its madness ( )

100% is fine against a lvl 80, 102.4 is needed for lvl 83s, as they get more chance to not be mitigated by you from the level difference. 0.2% per mitigation in fact i believe (miss, dodge, parry, block), thus 0.8%*3 levels = 2.4%