Ele Shaman T10 4Piece

[Mdaz]

Most of you seam confused on the actual dps upgrade T10 4piece for elemental, some say is no dps(WRONG) some say somewhere around 200(Close, sadly its lower). So Here is the math, Ill do it saying that Lightning Bolt hits for 8k average at a 1.5 second cast and Flame shock hits for 2.5k on avg with a 1.5 second GCD.

First lets determine the up-time for Flame Shock, Flame Shock is 18 seconds, so every 2 seconds you add 6 more And how many free GCDs you get.
((18/2)*6)+18=72 so a 72 second up-time. Now with the original FS being a 18 second duration. (72/18)-1=3 so 3 free GCDs per minute. (Minus 1 because you still have to cast FS once )

So with a 1.5 cast time that is 4.5 seconds at a 8k average..24k for all 3 and Flame Shock hits for a 2.5k average with a 1.5 second GCD..7.5k Difference is
16500/4.5=3666.67

So in conclusion that 3666.67 extra damage over 72 seconds
3666.67/54 = 67.901 dps.

To the the math for yourself go to a boss like Festergut, check your cast time with all Aura haste up(Boomkin and WoA) and see what your avg Lightning bolt hits for(hits and crits, misses and partial resist)

(avg LightningBolt*3)/(Cast time of Lightning Bolt*3)=X (X for LB...) (X-Y)/72=Your dps upgrade from from your teir.
(avg Flame shock dmg*3)/(GCD, 1.5 usually, less with Haste*3)=Y (Y for FS)

Plz comment and correct my math if anything is wrong, don't be too harsh, everyone makes mistakes. Thank you for reading this and I hope it helps
*Edit: Also note that this is without the shamanism buff in 3.3.2
*Edit: Added the difference of LB and FS to calc dmg. (TY Zamir)
*Edit: Even though Flame Shock Dura is increased to 72 seconds, its only the 54 seconds that do matter. (TY Soulfringe)

[Windy2510]

1 question atm, the set bonus is: Tier 10 Elemental Shaman set 4-pieces effect (redesigned): Whenever Lava burst successfully casted on the target, it increases Flame Shock duration by 6 sec.
Now why did you do all your math's with LB?
Im not that good at this stuff but just something I wondered

[Mdaz]

Because the GCDs that were once for flame shock will now be filled in with Lightning bolts.

[tacklebox]

either way its one of if not the worst 4pc bonus.

[Deleted]

So u save a gc at each 18 sec, for a 5 min fight that is ~17 gsc. Lets assume your LB is ~1.5sec cast hits ~5k and crits ~10k and you have ~50% crit chance in a raid that means u will cast and 17 extra LB`s that will deal 127.500 dmg that is ~425 dps.

Still that is on a fight that doesn't need moving and those numbers might not be 100% accurate.

[Spectrez]

I only got half of what you put out there. The 4 piece sucks.... any ele sham in their right mind would avoid the t10 4 piece, i would jsut stay with the t10 2 piece and the t9.5 2 piece.

[Deleted]

I never said that 4set bonus is good, i just want to show how much u can get from it, and btw those stats for a toc25/icc lvl geared shaman in a raid (fully buffed)

[Zamir]

Most of you seam confused on the actual dps upgrade T10 4piece for elemental, some say is no dps(WRONG) some say somewhere around 200(Close, sadly its lower). So Here is the math, Ill do it saying that Lightning Bolt hits for 8k average at a 1.5 second cast.

Nice try Mdaz! However if you're going to try to seriously calculate the DPS of something like this then you need to work with actual specific numbers.

How hard exactly does an "average" LB hit? (just guessing based on SCT numbers won't cut it)
How hard exactly does an "average" FS hit? (this is relevant as the damage has to be subtracted when considering the "extra" GCDs)
How long exactly will the timer be extended?
And finally, just to complicate matters: what effect does the uninterrupted tick timer have?

You can work out the first two through your stats, coefficients, buff multipliers etc. Also remember that your stats will be slightly higher with 4t10. You can work out the next one by very carefully mapping the rotation out based on action times. The final one is a bit more tricky, but you can figure it out by mapping the normal (non-4t10) rotation out and comparing it to the 4t10 rotation.

Or you can cheat and use a spreadsheet to model it all for you, which in ilevel 251 4t10 stats works out as about a 200 DPS value. It might be slightly lower depending on when exactly the extension is triggered (if it's on LvB hit we may potentially lose some ticks), but I would estimate that the bonus will be no less than 150 DPS. Remember that 2t9 is worth nearly 100 DPS at this gear level and has a similar, smaller effect.

[Mdaz]

How hard exactly does an "average" FS hit? (this is relevant as the damage has to be subtracted when considering the "extra" GCDs)

I knew I forgot something, the dmg of LB - FS

Also those numbers weren't anyone's dps they we're simply place holders.

[merlinsrobe]

and if its a mobile fight the set bonus is about 0-1 dps lol, what a joke it is, u have to move on virtualy every icc fight, its bad, real bad

[brek]

soo to say it so everyon understand it: get nontier stuff instead..

or am I wrong in working out that that's best? :P u can gain more then 200dps from nontier stuff.. (atleast if u dont got guild that ensures u the 10,** tier cause of the better stats)

[Kazuun]

Flame Shock is 18 seconds, so every 2 seconds you add 6 more

Hmm, let me understand something. Lava Burst got 8 sec cooldown. Every hit with it adds +6 secs to our FS duration. So it's +6 secs every 8 seconds.

Why did you wrote it's +6 secs every two seconds then? Am I missing something?

[soulfringe]

Is it just me, or does a lot of this math seem off.

For one thing, op didn't really explain the 2 second bit properly, though his end math on the duration is correct. Bonus adds 6 seconds when lava burst is on an 8 second cooldown. Blah blah blah. Draw a scale to understand this if you dont get it.

But one of the fails here though, is this does not take in to account, the cast time. This is a tough number to bring into the equation, because it is SOMEWHAT of an uncontrolled variable, as the resulting cast time will be modified by the casters haste rating/buffs at the time of casting. For simplicities sake, I would just say about .9 cast time on average. This will add up at the end of the rotation.


The next part is you can not decide the increase of the dps based upon the dot.

As Mdaz said

"Because the GCDs that were once for flame shock will now be filled in with Lightning bolts."

So what the real dps your looking for, is the extra number of the difference between the damage of a lightning bolt and the INITIAL damage of the flame shock. Then you would multiply that by the number of flame shocks that would have HAD to use if you did not have the bonus. Than you would divide that by the bonus flame shock duration.

So again, for simplicities sake, we will use the ideal Flame Shock duration bonus given in the openers math. 72 seconds. 72- the initial flame shock duration of 18 seconds, is = to 54 seconds. Divide that by 18 and you have 3 additional Flame shocks.

So with the bonus that would give us 3 Flame Shock cool downs we could use as Lightning Bolts.

Again, going with the openers averages (because I really don't want to go data mining), Lightning Bolt averages to 8k damage. Flame shocks initial damage average is = to 2.5k
8k - 2.5k = 5.5k x 3 = 16.5k divide this by 54 seconds 305.5

Of course even this math is off because we are not dealing with accurate numbers. I was merely just giving an example of how you would really look for the dps gain.
One of the other factors you would have to figure out to, is the cast time and global cooldowns left by lightning bolt and flame shock....
And remember because of cast times 1 fs does not really make a total of 72 seconds. You would also need to account for human error because I am sure not every lava burst will start immediately coming off cooldown, as you may be at the end of the cast on lightning bolt. These fractional seconds do add up a little a bit.



Oh and apologies on my bad grammar. This is math, not English.

[Bit]

and if its a mobile fight the set bonus is about 0-1 dps lol, what a joke it is, u have to move on virtualy every icc fight, its bad, real bad

THIS.

Almost every fight requires movement, some requires killing adds, that mean you will lost your extended FS (due to adds killing) and what with FS refreshing while moving (we will use FrostS now).

=[

[Mdaz]

For one thing, op didn't really explain the 2 second bit properly, though his end math on the duration is correct. Bonus adds 6 seconds when lava burst is on an 8 second cooldown. Blah blah blah. Draw a scale to understand this if you dont get it.

As Mdaz said
So what the real dps your looking for, is the extra number of the difference between the damage of a lightning bolt and the INITIAL damage of the flame shock. Then you would multiply that by the number of flame shocks that would have HAD to use if you did not have the bonus. Than you would divide that by the bonus flame shock duration.

So again, for simplicities sake, we will use the ideal Flame Shock duration bonus given in the openers math. 72 seconds. 72- the initial flame shock duration of 18 seconds, is = to 54 seconds. Divide that by 18 and you have 3 additional Flame shocks.

So with the bonus that would give us 3 Flame Shock cool downs we could use as Lightning Bolts.

Again, going with the openers averages (because I really don't want to go data mining), Lightning Bolt averages to 8k damage. Flame shocks initial damage average is = to 2.5k
8k - 2.5k = 5.5k x 3 = 16.5k divide this by 54 seconds 305.5

Of course even this math is off because we are not dealing with accurate numbers. I was merely just giving an example of how you would really look for the dps gain.
One of the other factors you would have to figure out to, is the cast time and global cooldowns left by lightning bolt and flame shock....
And remember because of cast times 1 fs does not really make a total of 72 seconds. You would also need to account for human error because I am sure not every lava burst will start immediately coming off cooldown, as you may be at the end of the cast on lightning bolt. These fractional seconds do add up a little a bit.

Okay, first thing first, Thank you on fixing my math, but you math is not correct also, Lava burst does have a cast time and that is not in your math, its the first 54 seconds that matter so missing a facrtion of a second wont hurt your dps as bad.

Second, your saying your Lightning Bolt isn't matching your global Cooldown yet? Guess I have enough haste for that, as we all know haste haste haste, I could come up with more accurate numbers but I wanted flat numbers to show for testing dummies, this bonus does have some.....scaling almost as much as scaling as the class has : / lol. Anyways thx and the dps increase is less then 100 and imo is not worth it : /.

thank you for reading post and the reply

[soulfringe]

Ummm.... I did mention lava burst cast time.

But one of the fails here though, is this does not take in to account, the cast time. This is a tough number to bring into the equation, because it is SOMEWHAT of an uncontrolled variable, as the resulting cast time will be modified by the casters haste rating/buffs at the time of casting. For simplicities sake, I would just say about .9 cast time on average. This will add up at the end of the rotation.

And to prove that it was there before you wrote up your post - check the last time edited with the time written on your post, just in case you think I'm blowing smoke up your ass.

One of the things I mentioned too, was that I was only going with certain values for simplicities sake. As I said, I am not going to go data mining.

Another thing to note is that I didn't say how close or far my LB's match my GCD. I'm just shy of 800 haste rating without buffs. That number could change depending on the stats I would have with t10. It could be more, it could be less. I merely said this was something that the user would also need to factor in. Unless every variable is completely the same, the results will be different.

What I was merely trying to show, is the proper method to determine the theoretical dps gain, using the semi inaccurate numbers used, the dps gain was over 300.

Of course we now know that the 72 second duration is not the solid number we are looking at because of accounting for lava burst cast times. So this will change a lot of the numbers used prior.



So whatever the case, we would need some data mining done to get the numbers as accurate as possible based on a 4pc t10 geared shaman. Someone do the spreadsheets !!
But anyways, I am sure the number we are looking at is much higher than 100. For christ sakes, the measly little flame shock duration buff on t9 2pc was something like 150 -200 dps.

[soulfringe]

So looking over your edit on the first post, one of the things I notice is that your taking the sum of the additional lightning bolts average damage difference from the flame shock (lol whut? Did that make any sense?) and dividing it by 4.5 for some reason. You do not need to do that. The only thing you would have to account for is any time gone over the gcd (which is not 1.5 btw, because haste lowers that gcd). Anyways You really only need to divide that number by the number of seconds of the additional rotation cycle. (i.e. this would be the 54 seconds, the first 18 seconds are irrelevant to the bonus)

You would have to edit that to match any fractional seconds of cast time over gcd, but the change wouldn't even come close to the drastic amount of change your doing. We have a much more accurate number ignoring this for shamans who don't have terribad haste.

[Mdaz]

Flame Shock does initial dmg, that isn't happening anymore therefore we have to take away from the lightning bolt avg, and Lava Burst does have a cast time thats around 1.2.....not 1.5 yes but it still needs to be divided to get dps....because you don't do 14k in 1 second, you do it in 1.2 Dps is Damage per Second.

[patpizza]

The set bonus COULD be better yes, but I wouldn't let your anger with it make u refuse to get 4 piece T10. Most people will EVENTUALLY get full 264 i would imagine and unless you are a shaman that drops totem of wrath (do any still exist?) the crit/hit gloves or pants are probably fine to use. No reason to lose a set bonus because you wanted a piece of gear that has haste instead crit.