Tuskarr's Vitality vs. Icewalker

[Melanin]

I learned a few new things in Swizzles Mage PvE Guide and i appreciate his hard work for the mage community!
I was glad to see that most thing´s on my mage are in common with what he wrote.
..but then one thing catched my eye:

Boots: Enchant Boots - Tuskarr's Vitality, Nitro Boosts

Well, Nitro Boosts, would be great but i´m no engineer!
But why should i pick Tuskarr´s Vitality since i get no dps from it? The reason i thought of was that on one hand it improves survivability (which doesn´t bother me as a DD).
So the reason must be the +speed..
..but..
..this is such a little difference, i can hardly see it!
After a wipe in ICC i put on my pvp shoes with Tuskarr enchant and started with another guy without tuskarr right at the entrance. In the end i was about 10 seconds earlier @ Festergut.
Hmm, okay this might be better than +crit/hit.. but during a fight, i move with blink or just position myself so that i don´t have to move very far.


Srsly, this can´t beat Icewalker or Greater Spirit on Boots!?! :
is there any math on this topic?

[Charo]

Because, even if you save one second of non-casting time when avoiding boss mechanics, you gain DPS. Think about it.

[wlfbck]

there is math, i'm too lazy to dig it out, but you have to run about 6seconds in a bossfight for tuskarr to be superior. so, yes get tuskarr^^

[Jeddite]

all that +hit/+crit from Icewalker really helps out when you're jogging from the AH to the mailbox.

[Baaadum]

In a standstill fight, obviously icewalker will be better. Even in fights you have to move, tuskarr's won't make too much of a difference moving out of the fire/void zone scenarios, and blink greatly expedites longer distances.

Personally, I find tuskarr's a waste. During those fire/void zone moments, I will usually cast an instant (I play a lock, so either corruption, lifetap, or CoA... all necessary for me to maintain max dps anyway), so I imagine you can just cast fire blast or Abarr. However, I'm not too familiar with mages.

[DirewolfX]

Elitist Jerks had some math on it a while back. If you have to move more than 4 seconds in a minute, it works out to be a DPS increase.

Another argument is that when you need to move, it's usually more critical than the tiny amount of DPS that Icewalker gives you.

That said, I still have an Icewalker on my boots, because I've been too lazy to switch. Back in the day, I felt that via smart positioning and intelligent use of my instants, I could make up for the lost DPS time, but I don't think that's the case anymore with ICC fights (and being Arcane instead of Fire). So someone remind me to switch my boot enchant when I log on tonight, k? =P

Edit:
@Baaadum: For most fights up until ICC, I really didn't think the void zone scenario was a big deal, but pretty much every fight after Saurfang requires a decent amount of movement.

[Xentin]

When we first started doing ToGC10 and 25 and someone would get hit with Ferocious Butt. I wanted to slap them when I inspected them and they didn't have Tuskarr's enchant on their boots.

Even without the math, there is no reason not to have it. The minor speed increase helps on a multitude of fights were movement is required in ICC. A dead DPS does no DPS at all.

[Melanin]

all that +hit/+crit from Icewalker really helps out when you're jogging from the AH to the mailbox.

lol

[Deleted]

Not really.

The basic idea is that with a 8% speed increase, you would spend 8% less time moving out of a fire, or whatever movement is required by the encounter. The dps that you could do in this time saved would be more then the increase from a mediocre enchant. There's no way to calculate what it does to dps, but some (high-end) guild make this enchant mandatory for all classes without a speed increasing talent, because they argue that the speed increase is more likely to make a difference between a wipe and a kill then the minor dps increase from icewalker.

Just make your own judgement on whether or not you think you need this enchant. I don't use it on my hunter, because I can do some dps while running, negating most of the "dps increase", but some hunters think I should, just for reducing raid damage I guess. For mages, I'd say they have enough mobility with blink, but I haven't raided with one. It doesn't really matter anyway, Icewalker isn't that big of a deal to miss out on.

[EDIT] To the people claiming there's math that proves it's a dps increase for fights where you have to move more then 4 seconds/minute, I think this is useless theorycrafting. When you're moving such a short distance, you can't really argue that because of the speed increase, you can stop moving faster. Server lag, human reaction speed, etc, etc, are much bigger factors. In my opinion, all it does is makes your character end up 1 or 2 pixels further away then where it would have ended up without the enchant. You cannot use math on this one.

[cheddahchad]

Personally, I go with Tuskaar's. Icewalker gives +12 hit and crit, which is basically nothing, and since the majority of mages are arcane, I'm making an assumption that you are arcane and therefore, do not need hit. The reason I say Tuskaar's is that it provides you with a little more survivability. Think about fights that require you to move a lot. The less time you spend moving=more time to dps=more dps than Icewalker alone.

[DeOderView]

Chasing some one 8% faster and running away 8% faster, worth it?!?! You'll be your own judge.

Mage --> Kite 8% faster! ... Woopppi, bunch of Hords on my tail wondering why?

[Sharaki]

all that +hit/+crit from Icewalker really helps out when you're jogging from the AH to the mailbox.

And this is the reason why I choose it. Yes, on movement fights it's dps increase (like 24 itemisation points from icewalker would really make that much difference anyways). Yes, when that movement is crusial it might save the raid from wipe. Still, at the end of the day, I like to be 10sec faster at festergut than that other guy. I want to read my mails faster, check AH faster.

Come on, who enjoys walking around in virtual world that much when you can do it in less time..

[Bischof]

Maybe it is not that good for dmg dealers but i think its powerful for healers cause you can give a damn on 18 spirit (i dont care about 3sp or 3mp5 on my priest) or 12 crit&hit, where you get laughed cause of 12 hit as a healer. I have it on my priest and i would never throw it away (and its worth a laugh when your faster than other ;D)


Icewalker is nice because with 12 hit you can come very near at your hitcap (in my case at my twinkwarlock 17,02% hit raidbuffed) but at the time, where im going over the cap i would switch to tuskarrs, i love it to be the first out of the danger zone and then the first to cast at the boss :P


PS: Sry for my bad english, still learning :-X

[Skarrd]

There's really no reason to ever use icewalker. The hit is the important part, and running tuskarrs + veiled gem over reckless gem is better.

[punkspider]

To the people claiming there's math that proves it's a dps increase for fights where you have to move more then 4 seconds/minute, I think this is useless theorycrafting. When you're moving such a short distance, you can't really argue that because of the speed increase, you can stop moving faster. Server lag, human reaction speed, etc, etc, are much bigger factors. In my opinion, all it does is makes your character end up 1 or 2 pixels further away then where it would have ended up without the enchant. You cannot use math on this one.

yes but with the enchant it moves you that much faster to help make up for the lag. And if your going by what you say any spread sheet is worthless due to the moron behind the computer or the crappy connection. shit lets not use math for anything and just wing it. 1-2 pixels could be the diff from being in fire or a push back effect and being in the clear to cast with out any push back or dieing.

[Wrok]

as a hitcapped mage, Enchant Boots - Greater Spirit is always superior to icewalker.
so the argument should really be that vs tuskarrs vitality.

from my personal experience, i dont run for more than 6sec in a fight. i blink at most.

[Skarrd]

as a hitcapped mage, Enchant Boots - Greater Spirit is always superior to icewalker.
so the argument should really be that vs tuskarrs vitality.

from my personal experience, i dont run for more than 6sec in a fight. i blink at most.

I'd like to know how you blink out of your flame debuff on blood queen. Also, blinking out of everything bad that happens to you is barely faster than running if you aren't using your whole blink distance, and it costs mana.

[Inhumane]

from my personal experience, i dont run for more than 6sec in a fight. i blink at most.

You must not be raiding ICC25 much...

[Bisley]

Another argument is that when you need to move, it's usually more critical than the tiny amount of DPS that Icewalker gives you.

this. its not necessarily JUST about the dps increase. Think icehowl heroic. yes you'll probably blink. But various things LIKE that where moving is key and you either cant blink or its on CD. safety dance, side switching on thaddius, running in/out of falling crap on hodir, getting under mushrooms on freya, getting to tentacles on yogg, getting out to the slime tank and back in to dps on rotface (you can only blink in one direction). Im sure Ive missed a very very large amount of fights that are heavily movement based but these are some that I know you have to be moving at least a few feet more often than the blink cooldown

[Deleted]

Take a look at ICC and movement ;

Marrow - every whirlwind you need to move out and be constantly moving out of his way while finding a safe spot, then moving back in when he's stationary.
Lady - swapping from side to side for adds , move out of DnD and moving from the ghosts.
Gunship - moving out of rockets , moving to adds.
Saurfang - if ur on add duty and u need to move away otherwise pretty stationary
Rotface - moving to spores in and out
Festergut - moving out of melee with add debuff moving for explosions and back in
PP - constant movement to get in range of adds and avoid goo
Bprinces - movement out of whirlwinds , red balls etc...
Queen - moving to person with red beem spreading out when she goes up into the sky

As you can see most of the fights are constant movement and blink is really usefull for things but it does have a CD , saying you don't move enough is well... silly unless you haven't done a lot of ICC or you're a bad player and causing your healers to heal you more or just simply not DPS'ing the correct targets. I would write up ToC and uld things too but I'm lazy and it's outdated content but there's also a lot of movement here too...
Icewalker is basically 12 crit... if you need the hit from it ... gear up. 12 crit isn't a great amount of DPS , nor is moving faster but if I get from A to B faster it means I can DPS faster :P It's common sense at the end of the day what is 12 crit rating ??? About .02% crit ???