Anyone else have this problem?

[BlackWaltzEOSK]

ok so i just got into CoS heroic on my rouge that just hit 80 yesterday, i was in a group of people that we decked out in all t9 or better there was a mage, a boomkin, priest healer and a warrior tank (whose wow-heroes score is 2912) i only had the crafted ilvl 200 shoulders and belt and the cloak, plus the ring from Halloween. i was only pulling 1800dps, which i thought was decent. I'm mutilate specced fyi and we're flying through this place pretty good and we make past the waves part and the tank starts to give me crap since I'm not doing more damage then him he was pulling 2k dps and i told him I'm sorry and that i just hit 80 yesterday and he says that doesn't matter that i suck and boots me.

so 2 things

1. is that bad having 1800dps as a fresh 80 or am i doing something wrong? pls let me know

2. Has anyone yet figured out why people are like this? It was immature (which leads me to believe he has like 15-16) and unnecessary.

[michaeljackson]

yes, you do something wrong. maybe you should try a different spec. 51/13/7 this is the old naxxramas multi build. try it! if you do not even have a clue how to raid as a rogue, you should read the several rogue faq's.
i made 3k dps in full season 3 gear on patchwork ( its a tank n spank fight, i know) when i hit 80, so you should do more dps than 1,8k.
the wow-community has changed. if you can't take the heat, play another game.

[ringzero]

1800 is VERY good for a fresh 80 mutilate rogue in a place such as H CoS. I'm actually surprised you got that high. First, CoS is 5 man, which means fewer buffs. Second, CoS is multi-mob hell, which sucks for Mutilate. Even 10-man Patchwerk is a ridiculous comparison.

So in other words, yes... you're doing fine. It's tough for fresh 80s to run randoms nowadays because everyone's mains are geared very well and everyone is expecting to breeze through 3 heroics per hour. And CoS is that much worse if anyone's going for a speed run for the mount.

[Kelticfox]

yes, you do something wrong. maybe you should try a different spec. 51/13/7 this is the old naxxramas multi build. try it! if you do not even have a clue how to raid as a rogue, you should read the several rogue faq's.
i made 3k dps in full season 3 gear on patchwork ( its a tank n spank fight, i know) when i hit 80, so you should do more dps than 1,8k.
the wow-community has changed. if you can't take the heat, play another game.

You sound very negative. He came for advice not a beating.
The WoW Community hasn't changed. There will always be people needing help, people offering advice, debates and trolls.


On Topic:

You might find it more beneficial to respec to Combat for the time being. Reason being, as a newly started level 80 you will storm through Heroics (due to other members gear level) and as such you'll have a hard time as Mutilate.

Combat will allow you to change mobs quickly and suffer less DPS loss then Mutilate (which is typically good for single targets). As the mobs will be dying quickly you'll have to change quickly.

Other then that don't worry about your DPS too much as you're just starting out. The DPS will come with gear. The gear will come extremely fast.

[BlackWaltzEOSK]

ok thanks, i mean i've pulled 3k on bosses but multi mob groups i only do about 1.6-2k which i thought was decent i just wanted to make sure wasnt just a horrible rogue cause i seem to do ok in all the other heroics

[Zonas]

Saying deckd out in T9 id assume your saying theyr really cool for being in T9 but unless its triumph then T9 should be normally thought of as them wearing greens with big stats.

But meh i just did a VH on my tankadin and a rogue who said he dingd like 45 min ago was doing around 2k dps on parts of it while there was a hunter in some epics and T9 conquest that couldnt break 1k.

She ended up leaving after first boss though so i didnt get the chance to flame.. :-\

... BUT ya if the persons honest about being nub or somthing idc as long as theyr up to par with their gear.

[Sesshou]

Well for mut, you only "need" 2 glyphs, therefore you should glyph FoK for what you are doing. Also the go combat suggestion isn't really that good of a suggestion. IF you have better combat weapons than mut weapons (meaning you can not main hand a dagger for combat, so if you do not have a better main hand than your dagger forget it) then you may want to respec. 1800dps as a fresh 80 is a bit low, you should have been able to beat the tank still if he was only pulling 2kdps.

This combat is amazing for target switching while mut sucks at it, is a load of crap. Combat, may be very very slightly better... maybe. This use to be true before the poison change because combat lost hardly anything by not having deadly poison up where mut needed it to envenom (and envenom is important to ensure that SnD doesnt drop). However due to the deadly poison change, combat needs the 5 stack of DP to reach max dps. Mut will in general have a base of 4% higher change to apply DP, and in general a faster (1.4 versus a non CQC combat offhand of 1.5) offhand for faster applications.

Combat gives you cooldowns, but unless there is a damage mechanic like icehowl's wall crash you are merely inflating your instantaneous dps and your overall average may not be higher.

Heroics are mostly trash. In most cases, you will want to FoK trash. A 1.8/1.4 dagger combo will be more FoK damage than a 2.6/1.5 non dagger set up.

[Spoogles]

As far as I am concerned with all aspects ofthe game wether it be grouping or looting etc

"I expect NOTHING that way im never dissapointed and everything I do get is a bonus."

[Annoying]

This combat is amazing for target switching while mut sucks at it, is a load of crap. Combat, may be very very slightly better... maybe. This use to be true before the poison change because combat lost hardly anything by not having deadly poison up where mut needed it to envenom (and envenom is important to ensure that SnD doesnt drop). However due to the deadly poison change, combat needs the 5 stack of DP to reach max dps. Mut will in general have a base of 4% higher change to apply DP, and in general a faster (1.4 versus a non CQC combat offhand of 1.5) offhand for faster applications.

You forget he speaks about heroics. I rarely get the chance to envenom a mob in a heroic. Sure, bosses I get my rotation going, but as combat, every mob you're bursting with 1pt snd and SS spam vs. never getting to utilize mut's amazing poison damage via envenom. Combat has a definitive advantage in heroics. No bleeds? Who cares! Mobs dying too fast? No problem!

[elvez]

You forget he speaks about heroics. I rarely get the chance to envenom a mob in a heroic. Sure, bosses I get my rotation going, but as combat, every mob you're bursting with 1pt snd and SS spam vs. never getting to utilize mut's amazing poison damage via envenom. Combat has a definitive advantage in heroics. No bleeds? Who cares! Mobs dying too fast? No problem!

Don't forget about combat cooldowns. They probably account for 30% or more of my dps on heroics if used well, no way muti can compete with those, not even on bosses.
Weapons aren't really an issue unless you threw away all the swords or the axes you dropped till now. But no worry even if that's the case, you can get some nice axes/swords from the new dungeons (FoS/PoS/HoR).

[aenara]

ok so i just got into CoS heroic on my rouge that just hit 80 yesterday, i was in a group of people that we decked out in all t9 or better there was a mage, a boomkin, priest healer and a warrior tank (whose wow-heroes score is 2912) i only had the crafted ilvl 200 shoulders and belt and the cloak, plus the ring from Halloween. i was only pulling 1800dps, which i thought was decent. I'm mutilate specced fyi and we're flying through this place pretty good and we make past the waves part and the tank starts to give me crap since I'm not doing more damage then him he was pulling 2k dps and i told him I'm sorry and that i just hit 80 yesterday and he says that doesn't matter that i suck and boots me.

so 2 things

1. is that bad having 1800dps as a fresh 80 or am i doing something wrong? pls let me know

2. Has anyone yet figured out why people are like this? It was immature (which leads me to believe he has like 15-16) and unnecessary.

Being a tank with recount, I have to say that if you're doing 1800 dps as a fresh 80 you'd be welcome in my groups anyday! The amount of level 80s I've seen that only just break 1000 dps (and most of them have quite a few epics) is amazing. So the fact is, don't lose heart. You're doing fine!

[War]

Yeah dude I'm sorry to hear that but it seems more and more you are coming across elitest jerks in groups doing 5-mans. worst part is half the time they aren't elite (healers rushing tanks, when they can't handle the load--tanks overdoing it and blaming healers).

I myself am going on like my 5th or 6th 80 or soemthing like that and I have to say 1800 as a brand new 80 isn't bad.

I remember when Nax was top game, and you had to be pulling 2k dps which meant you spent time farming heroics to get the best gear there so you could pull 2k. At that time dps was only getting around 1500 max most times (oh god heroics were hard then lol).

So really 1800 is nothing to be ashamed of, if you hopped in my group while I was tanking I wouldn't mind--just would be appreciated informing me that you are a fresh 80. that way i know if explanations are needed etc

[jerald]

The biggest problem here is we are talking about a heroic...so your dps really doesn't matter. If anyone else in your group complains about it, remind them that it is a heroic, and tell them to STFU.

DPS in heroics is irrelevant and should not be used to gauge ANYTHING. A 10/25 is a different story.

[iddqd]

...as long its in the "limits". You are absolutely right besides the guy who is brain afk 90% of the time, dying cause standing in fire, is always "to the toilet" and so is doing 600 dps with ilvl200+ items....

[Sesshou]

You forget he speaks about heroics. I rarely get the chance to envenom a mob in a heroic. Sure, bosses I get my rotation going, but as combat, every mob you're bursting with 1pt snd and SS spam vs. never getting to utilize mut's amazing poison damage via envenom. Combat has a definitive advantage in heroics. No bleeds? Who cares! Mobs dying too fast? No problem!

No I didn't forget he speaks about heroics. I think you forgot to read the last section of my post where I talked about FoK which minus the times when you have BF/AR up will do more dps as mut spec. Also that you can glyph FoK for no loss as mut (assuming that in a heroic you aren't likely to be tricks swapping with another rogue) where as combat has to give up a dps glyph to use the FoK glyph. You're also assuming he has an equal or better non dagger MH. If it happens to be better than his dagger then he should probably respec.

I don't know about everyone else, but for the overall meter on heroics, FoK is my #1 usually (I'm combat without the glyph).

@aenara
I know what you are saying, but I'm sorry, 1800 is still a tad low. Is 1800 atrocious for a new 80? No. Is it low enough to kick him? IMO, no. Those people who pull under 1k... had I never seen it I wouldn't believe it. I have no idea how they can suck that bad if they are actually somewhat trying. The numbers will also vary by class, so while 1800 may be a tad low for a rogue, 1500 could be above average for something else.

@War
2kdps with heroic gear? I don't know who you raid with, but we had people breaking 3k easily in raids with level 70 gear. 2kdps would have gotten laughed out of our raids. You said Naxx so Im assuming you mean raid dps.

[Sarcasm]

Some people tend to treat Recount as a lot of people treat Gear Score. It doesn't matter if the group is smooth and you're personally doing fine, if they look at the addon and see your numberz are lower than theirs, they'll spit on you for it.

[aenara]

@aenara
I know what you are saying, but I'm sorry, 1800 is still a tad low. Is 1800 atrocious for a new 80? No. Is it low enough to kick him? IMO, no. Those people who pull under 1k... had I never seen it I wouldn't believe it. I have no idea how they can suck that bad if they are actually somewhat trying. The numbers will also vary by class, so while 1800 may be a tad low for a rogue, 1500 could be above average for something else.

After tanking ToC normal for a friend, the OP would definately be welcome in my group. There was a hunter in full t9 epics with the nesingwary gun doing, wait for it..... 850 dps. I asked why it was so low and he was using level 40 bullets and claiming that he couldn't find better. Now I agree in a heroic or instance that dps is irrelevant, unlike a raid. If you can't break 1000 dps in epics though you deserve to be kicked - my old hunter was pulling 1.2k in blues at 75 so an 80 in t9 can do it!

[Sesshou]

But there is a huge difference between being bad and being a tad low.

I agree that in a heroic it does not really matter much. I generally don't votekick some one because their dps is abysmal as long as they are doing something. For example, one time I had a 2k GS mage who thought it was perfectly fine to toss 1 (maybe 2) frost bolts per pull, blatantly wasting my time like that pisses me off.

@sarcasm
I dunno about you, but I definitely spit on the plate classes who come into a random heroic as a tank with barely over 20khp and a 2k GS without being crit immune. They can't hold agro, if you aren't lucky enough to get a decent healer, they get smashed (actually even with a decent healer 20khp can get smashed from crits on certain things). And they do it just because they get an instant group. Happened twice to me this week (first a DK, then a warrior). Anyway my point is actually that the second time this happened, the priest happily healed me through it and I tanked, so the group actually did go smoothly, but I definitely spit on that warrior the whole way through.

[Sarcasm]

That's why I said "it doesn't matter if the group is smooth and you're personally doing fine". Obviously if the group isn't smooth and you're the reason (like the tanks you got landed with), then there's a problem.

[War]

I didn't raid with hardcore progressive groups, and I am assuming he isn't either. First thing people were looking for in pugging nax was 2k deeps.

So yeah it may not have always been successful (ofc most of the time 50% weren't pulling 2k) but yeah his dps isn't bad he is just lacking gear, which will change within a week im sure.

Please less flame posts btw, less productive then just explaining things.