Black Magic vs.63 spellpower

[harky]

Agreed. I got something like a 10 dps decrease with BM compared to 63 sp, as destro.

Got a link to the dump from that? Or an Armory? I've never seen BM come out remotely close to +63 SP as Destro. It's usually a 20-30 DPS loss.

[Tacgnolol]

Bummer, I seriously gotta learn to proof read <_<

I meant to say a dps increase of 10.

Boy, I sure feel stupid now!

[Tash]

Thanks for all you inputs guys im just gonna try both out myself but thanks agian

[Kaeleena]

I switched to BM on my destro lock when ICC came out. WWS and Rawr both backup this change. What most people don't realize is that the effective values of haste and spellpower are so close for destro lock that when raid buffed you reach a spellpower soft cap in which additional points of haste will surpass additional points of spellpower in total damage output.

The majorly of destro warlocks out there are (falsely) under the misconception that 23 spellpower gems in every socket is the way to go, which is why they come out WAYY over this spellpower soft cap when fully raid buffed. I on the other hand gemmed many available sockets with spellpower/haste gems(which effectively produces a higher total spellpower than using a spellpower gem in a red socket and a haste gem in a yellow socket) as per Rawr's suggestion, doing so brought down my total spellpower raid buffed, thereby raising the relative value of the spellpower I already had and generating more damage with a higher base haste total. I then applied BM to my weapon and saw a small increase in effective DPS over 63 spellpower.

The other thing most people don't realize is that the BM enchant is actually on a 35 second ICD, not a 45 second ICD, so they're calculating it incorrectly. Also, they demonize procs but the awsome thing about procs is, unless you have to move during the proc, you move and effectively spend internal cooldown time on the enchant moving. The end result is a higher while casting uptime on the proc, increasing your dps even furthur. Conversely, 63 sp is entirely worthless when you're moving. Just some food for thought.

Edit: Patchwerk based fight simulations won't effectively generate the increased value of a proc.

[Deleted]

I think you're underestimating the source of information on the issue.

Yes, you are correct to say that when raid buffed, SP will be considerably higher than haste relative to unbuffed values, but sims are performed under raid conditions, i.e. the scaling factors for SP and haste which people tend to quote are the scaling factors which account for raid buffs. Similarly, sim results take into account the correct ICD times.

You are also correct to say that a Patchwerk style fight is a particularly poor way to assess procs due to the need to move, but the case is not as simple as you state. There are situations where, as you say, need for movement occurs during ICD, which increase the uptime to cast-time ratio. There are a proportionally equivalent number of times when need for movement occurs during uptime, which reduce the uptime to cast-time ratio. The ability to control your movement to exploit this is mitigated by the fight. In very few cases where a need to move arises would it be sensible to delay it significantly to exploit a proc. Similarly, there are very few cases where you will be moving for so long that you are guaranteed to offset any proc loss with ICD loss in the same movement.

I agree that procs are not as useless in a heavy movement fight as some people suggest, but I would be very surprised to find that they rate significantly higher on average than sim results suggest, even if played very well.

[Warlocomotif]

Throughout TBC and WotLK there has never, ever, been a time where the top DPS theorycrafted spec was not also the best spec in practice. Discarding sim results just because they simulation patchwerk is disregarding a very very long trend of best patchwerk specs simply best the best specs overall without actually giving any reason as to why that would suddenly be the case now.

Also, there is no such thing as a spellpower cap or spellpower soft cap.

[Gahouf!]

Thats actually not true. I use BM as affliction spec and have seen an increase in my numbers whereas when destro it was actually a slight decrease using BM. Demo was about even with BM coming out slightly ahead.

For Demo you should go with 63sp regardless of personal DPS, 'cause it'll (however slightly) increase your rDPS by a greater amount.

For Affliction, I'm getting my hands on any Haste I can without gimping my SP, and when Corruption goes down to 2 sec Duration and SB to 1 sec Cast with Haste procs+pot during BL numbers get pretty amazing.

Of course, this is not simcrafted, but it feels like the way to go.

[emoroan]

which is why they come out WAYY over this spellpower soft cap when fully raid buffed

Spellpower soft cap? what on earth are you on about. Sure other stats become more valued at higher levels of spell power but it's a multiplier and will always scale.

[ComputerNerd]

Procs will always be subject to RNG and so will suffer on any mobile fight, or one where for whatever reason you are unable to cast for a period of time and it procs during that so going to waste.
BM may be slightly higher during according to theory a Patchwerk stand still and nuke fight, but the difference is very small and the small number of those fights is not enough of a reason to justify relying on a proc.