Judgement question

[nwo]

It only affects healing received from JoL by those with the talent. It has no impact on the healing done to raid members that aren't spec'd into Divinity. Does that make sense?

So in other words the simple answer is no.

If a raid member is specced into it and is not the one judging it then does he benefit 5% or 10% from it? What if a specced pally judges it and receives the procs from it? 10% or 5% here?

[Prentice]

So in other words the simple answer is no.

If a raid member is specced into it and is not the one judging it then does he benefit 5% or 10% from it? What if a specced pally judges it and receives the procs from it? 10% or 5% here?

Confusion. I expected it.

Two scenarios;

Ret pally without any points in Divinity is judging light. The healing received by the raid and the ret pally is equal to the base of the standard judgement

Holy pally with 5/5 Divinity is judging light. The healing received by the raid is still equal to the base amount of the standard judgement.

The only time more healing is received through the combination of JoL and Divinity is in the situation where one of your raid members, a prot or ret pally, is spec'd into Divinity. Regardless of who is applying JoL, anyone spec'd into Divinity will receive increased healing from Divinity.

Divinity does not increase the value of the JoL debuff. It only increases your own personal healing received from the debuff. Unlike a prot pally casting HL on himself and doubledipping, JoL doesn't work the same way.

He'd receive 10% from his own procs, and everyone else would get 5% from his procs.
I do ask people don't get into flamewars in the middle of a thread, and stop trying to turn everything someone else says into something it's not.

I am 99% certain that your scenario is not correct.

[Eurytos]

Quoting this person here jsut because I can, but this is directed towards all members talking on this topic. Please explain to me why it is more important for a Prot to judge Wisdom and a Ret to judge light? If that's the case, I've been doing it all wrong.

Perhaps I dont know what I am talking about, but I do know that I can judge light, then next rotation, judge wisdom. I never said anything about debuffing the target with more than one effect.

Jesus, I need to learn to keep my mouth shut around here, cause if I dont have green stars under my name, I get butt slammed.

It has less to do with the fact that a prot can judge Light or Wisdom, but moreso the fact that you stated(and then later said was from a different site) that some prot pallies dont even judge. It is ludicrous that a pally, of any spec for that matter, would not judge.

If you want to judge light, do it. If you want to judge wisdom, do it. If you want to judge justice, do it. If you think you dont have to judge as a prot paladin, leave this forum.

[knumskul]

No one gives a shit if you're alive and cant do any damage

hmm.....oom ret/prot pallies can autoswing to do some dmg
oom hunter can autoshot while their pet is still doing dmg. they can use aspect of viper to regain mana anyway so i don't see a reason why they should ever run oom for good.
oom locks can lifetap. if they can't afford to, they can wand
oom priests and mages can wand.
oom enchance shammies can autoattack. oom ele shammies can sit a while and regen some mana and continue to cast later on. a dead one cant do that

all the above oom can still do some sort of dmg even if it is just a little. a dead dps cannot do ANY form of dmg. how many times have people experienced 1% wipes due to enrage timers. that little amounts of dmg could've prevented that.

[odithius]

Only place a prot pally should have to worry about mana is in a heroic. Even then you will judge wisdom for some mana, if anything you would drop cons from your rotation or wear threat gear so your healed more. If your running low on mana during a raid something is either wrong or you outgear the place, again you will still judge but drop cons from your rotation.

On to a response to the OP. This subject will be very opinionated even within pallies within the same raid. In a 25 man, I would think the chances of having 3 pallies is pretty good so thats easy. If for some reason there is one pally in the raid, I tell them to judge wisdom unless you have all non mana using dps, end of story. In my experience JoL will not save a raid or is it required. Is it nice, yes but not required. I rather have dps going full out, remember less overall healing is required when the boss dies faster or if you have an enrage timer.

[diseous]

I would look at it this way (and again forgive me for my opinion).

If there is a prot Warrior and a Fury Warrior in a raid, would you both use the same shout?

If there is a resto shaman and an enhance shaman in a raid, would they both use the same totem?

If there is a fire mage and an arcane mage in a raid, would the both use Scorch?

etc etc

I see a trend here that it really all depends on talents. Unfortunately for the paladin class, our trees are all fucked up, so a definitive answer as to "who should judge what" is only answered by the situation. What is needed more, mana or healing? If there is an option for both, than both should be applied. If only one can be applied,

More Melee = Healing
More Casters = Mana

Is, and or, can that be a justifiable statement?

[conqq]

I've looked all over for a definitive answer to this question to no avail.

If you have multiple paladins in a group, ie: pally tank, ret pally and holy pally...what are the correct judgements for everyone to be using and do they stack?

I read somewhere that ret and holy should throw light if with a prot and prot should use wisdom.

I am a holy pally and i always run with a prot pally. Is it wrong that currently both of us are throwing light? should we be doing it different?

Thanks in advance for help with this issue.

No, they do not stack. Ideally with multiple pallies, only 2 seals are capable of being up: Light & Wisdom, now that they're based on %s instead of the pally. it doesn't matter who puts them up.

[LDG]

I do believe my question has been answered.

Thanks again for all the useful replies and the flaming made me lol so thanks for that too :

[Styria]

No, they do not stack. Ideally with multiple pallies, only 2 seals are capable of being up: Light & Wisdom, now that they're based on %s instead of the pally. it doesn't matter who puts them up.

you forgot about Judgement of Justice to keep the boss from running away

[odithius]

If you have multiple paladins in a group, ie: pally tank, ret pally and holy pally...what are the correct judgements for everyone to be using and do they stack?

This was answered, it was no. The rest was opinions which should have still answered your question based on what you think. It does not matter who throws what as it is the same from anyone, the only person that makes a difference is the holy pally if you even have one, and it only affects him (the difference that is).

[LDG]

I am the holy pally (and a she not a he btw)

The question got brought up because the other night in a 5man heroic we had 3 pallys.

Tank, ret and myself healing. The ret pally asked my tank what judgement he was throwing so i began looking for info on whats best for each to throw because i had been throwing light.

My tank also throws light so I am going to switch to wisdom.

Thanks again for all the opinions and problem solved!!

[odithius]

If you are the holy pally and there is another pally present, you throw the one you want and have the other pally throw the other one. Does that make sense. Everyone still gets both but you get your version via glyph and talents. Makes sense still?

[LDG]

Yes and since my tank doesnt want to change his I am changing mine. Both are thrown and everyones happy!

[odithius]

Woot

[luthe]

Quoting this person here jsut because I can, but this is directed towards all members talking on this topic. Please explain to me why it is more important for a Prot to judge Wisdom and a Ret to judge light? If that's the case, I've been doing it all wrong.

Perhaps I dont know what I am talking about, but I do know that I can judge light, then next rotation, judge wisdom. I never said anything about debuffing the target with more than one effect.

Jesus, I need to learn to keep my mouth shut around here, cause if I dont have green stars under my name, I get butt slammed.

It's not about who judges what, but the two important judgements (light and wis) should be judged by the prot / ret if you're running them, because Judgement is a 8 or 9 second cd and will be used on every cd for them. holy has a 60 second buff from judging, meaning they only need to judge once per minute, which would result in 40 seconds of downtime on the judgement debuff. this is hugely detrimental to buff uptime on very useful buffs.