Oathbinder, Charge of the Ranger-General

[Nassam]

Not to nit-pick to death, but this does not really answer the question. You have provided a list of stats between the items for the two classes mentioned, but you fail to explain the DAMAGE increase each can provide.

I didn't say "feral must have it before hunts or the contrary" and I just provided a "list of stats changes" in the case Phere asked because THERE IS NO ANSWER without a context !

if you're in a good guild where the "raid progress" is more important than yourself, it may be possible that this item is better for the hunter if he has a very crapy weapon and you (as feral) a very good one.

RELATIVITY !
there are no absolutes !

after that, if you only think "it's MY BiS", it will be for both ^^ so just compare with your guildmates whom benefits the most of it.

[xebtria]

situation a)
does your guild allow hunters to have priority for range weapons over warriors and rogues AND allows druids prority for 2h staffs and druids/palas/warriors(hi@arms)/DKs priority for 2h polearms over hunters?
fine!

situation b)
your guild doesn't allow any priorities as long it a) makes sense (giving that spellpower dagger to a rogue doesn't) and b) the one rewarding the given item will wear it in raid and not just use it for dalaran-itemlevel-pushing-for-gearscore?
well, it's fine too then - assuming you can live with that.

situation c)
does your guild allow hunters to have priority for range weapons over warriors and rogues But allows hunters the same priority for staffs and polearms just like druids/palas/warriors/DKs?
c.1) try to make your guild(leader) get situation a OR b as standard in your guild.
c.2) if any of that fails, your guild(leader) fails and you should try finding another guild.


simple as that.

[arel00]

I didn't say "feral must have it before hunts or the contrary" and I just provided a "list of stats changes" in the case Phere asked because THERE IS NO ANSWER without a context !

if you're in a good guild where the "raid progress" is more important than yourself, it may be possible that this item is better for the hunter if he has a very crapy weapon and you (as feral) a very good one.

RELATIVITY !
there are no absolutes !

I was about to state the same thing, so I'd like to say: QFT.

Personally, when I see hunters claiming that druids use weapons only as stat sticks like them, I turn as much a beast IRL as my druid does in-game when I press "Dire Bear Form". However, while I'm a merciless defender of class mechanics and implanting them into GMs' minds, raiding and guild politics are a different matter.

Granted my GM realizes how we work, I have no problem giving that to an hunter first. What kills the boss is the raid DPS, not mine. If the raid DPS benefits more by giving that weapon to a hunter over me, then so be it.
I'd give Shadowmourne to a DK tank as well if the same benefits applies there tbh.

Guilds are guilds. They work because they're teams.

[Deleted]

well, if i understand right your post, you are a hunter ?

the fact is that for hunters, the weapon is a "stats stick": you "only" benefits from the stats on the weapon (agi/crit/haste/ap/arp).
For ferals, we benefit from the stats just the same as you, BUT the actual "DPS" of the weapon is the base of all our attacks: the weapon DPS is converted to Feral Attack Power and the attack power is used for the scaling of all our techniques.

Hellion Glaive (258): 3174 FAP + stats
Bloodfall (264): 3358 FAP + stats
Oathbinder (271): 3586 FAP + stats

so for you: (hellion glaive -> oathbinder) = +20agi, -3crit, +43AP, +21ARP, Y -> R socket
for the feral drood: (bloodfall -> oathbinder) = -5agi, -9crit, -92haste, B -> R socket, +47 AP, +115 ARP, +228 FAP

so you gain everywhere but "a little"

we exchange haste for a lot of arp and a lot of AP.

If you can kill LK25N, it's very likely that you'll be killing Festergut25H soon as well, and Distant Land HC > Oathbinder N. So let the hunters have it (they don't want distant land/bloodfall).

Oathbinder H is fair game tho

[Alexandrra2012]

I didn't say "feral must have it before hunts or the contrary" and I just provided a "list of stats changes" in the case Phere asked because THERE IS NO ANSWER without a context !

if you're in a good guild where the "raid progress" is more important than yourself, it may be possible that this item is better for the hunter if he has a very crapy weapon and you (as feral) a very good one.

RELATIVITY !
there are no absolutes !

after that, if you only think "it's MY BiS", it will be for both ^^ so just compare with your guildmates whom benefits the most of it.

This clarification I agree with.

[Elunedra]

If you can kill LK25N, it's very likely that you'll be killing Festergut25H soon as well, and Distant Land HC > Oathbinder N. So let the hunters have it (they don't want distant land/bloodfall).

Oathbinder H is fair game tho

not tru if u can kil LK25N he mgiht be of same diffuculty as fester25H but the truth is some ppl cant proggress in herrics becase then it all of a sudden requires skill

in the end of the day i am still competiting up to the hunters they got equal prio as me and they do get prio over ranged weapons.

[Jon]

Change guild then. Hunters getting prio over ranged weapons is as it should be, but only fail guilds allow them to roll/bid on melee weapons with melee classes.

[leofric]

This is the simplest way I can explain the significance of a melee weapon to a feral vs. a hunter.

If a hunter were to take off his melee weapon, he would lose the stats that were on that weapon (these stats are similar to those that are on a chest or leg slot) which would only drop their dps by ~5%.

Now if a feral were to take off his melee weapon, their dps would suffer by ~50%. This is due to the Feral Attack Power on the weapon which is converted from the weapon dps Oathbinder (note the 3586 ap on this weapon). This is why ferals should get the same priority as other melee over hunters.

[Aluana]

I didn't say "feral must have it before hunts or the contrary" and I just provided a "list of stats changes" in the case Phere asked because THERE IS NO ANSWER without a context !

if you're in a good guild where the "raid progress" is more important than yourself, it may be possible that this item is better for the hunter if he has a very crapy weapon and you (as feral) a very good one.

RELATIVITY !
there are no absolutes !

after that, if you only think "it's MY BiS", it will be for both ^^ so just compare with your guildmates whom benefits the most of it.

this is the most relevant answer in this whole thread... it all depends on who it is a bigger upgrade for at the time, and who will benefit most from it... if you're thinking of your own dps before that of the entire raid ur doin it wrong...

a Guild is a team, the team cannot progress without everyone pulling their weight and working together... if losing out on a BiS weapon means the guild benefits, who cares? you've defeated the encounter once or twice, no doubt you'll eventually do it again and the item in question may even drop again...

[coño]

i'm laughing at myself and you guys at the same time, why?

be glad your guild doesn't run dkp. Logic and game mechanics don't mean anything when you don't have dkp.
Saying that.. DKP allowed me to be the first one with DBW and I just got DV. (4th)

We've only killed saurfang 3 times since hes been out. I live through you guys.

[getefix]

i'm laughing at myself and you guys at the same time, why?

be glad your guild doesn't run dkp. Logic and game mechanics don't mean anything when you don't have dkp.
Saying that.. DKP allowed me to be the first one with DBW and I just got DV. (4th)

We've only killed saurfang 3 times since hes been out. I live through you guys.

The top guild on my server (not mine) is notorious for outfitting their top DPS first. I think they're working on heroic saurfang 25.

Progression guilds don't give gear away to people who horde dkp by not taking upgrades.

[Biznick]

Progression guilds don't give gear away to people who horde dkp by not taking upgrades.

Yes they do. People tend to horde DKP for the biggest upgrades first though. So a hunter isn't as likely to blow a good chunk of DKP on a staff upgrade as quickly as a kitty druid would.

Though DBW basically has a line around the corner for it.

[Jon]

What guild splits loot solely based on DKP?

Yeah, we do have a dkp system of sorts too, but there's no way a hunter would get their hands on a melee weapon before the more deserving classes get theirs. No matter how many poinst the hunter has. We actually use some brains when splitting loot.

Also, loot point hording is frowned upon. If the officers notice people start refusing multiple nice upgrades because they want to chase certain dream item that *might* drop or not, they'll just go "hey you'll take that upgrade or you'll cry and take it".

[teddabear]

this is the most relevant answer in this whole thread... it all depends on who it is a bigger upgrade for at the time, and who will benefit most from it... if you're thinking of your own dps before that of the entire raid ur doin it wrong...

a Guild is a team, the team cannot progress without everyone pulling their weight and working together... if losing out on a BiS weapon means the guild benefits, who cares? you've defeated the encounter once or twice, no doubt you'll eventually do it again and the item in question may even drop again...

It would be virtually impossible for the weapon to be a bigger upgrade for the hunter. If it was then there is no way that Hunter should have been in the raid in the first place. There is no way now or any any time in the near future that guilds that actually kill Lich King will let this go to a Hunter unless no Feral needs it.

[LonezWulf]

Makes me wonder what will happen to all the ArP gems when Cata hits. :P

[Jon]

Makes me wonder what will happen to all the ArP gems when Cata hits. :P

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/2339...cataclysm.html

[coño]

The top guild on my server (not mine) is notorious for outfitting their top DPS first. I think they're working on heroic saurfang 25.

Progression guilds don't give gear away to people who horde dkp by not taking upgrades.

Well let me also say, that people "bid up". Even though it's against the rules. We have 5 rogues, 1 main tank druid, 3 hunters, and lots of melee dps. It's not very easy to accumalate my gear for my feral. So it's easier to save and throw out what we call a man bid than getting into bid wars and losing out on mediocre pieces.
We are a progression guild who hasn't gotten past rot or fester 25m normal.

Staying on the thread not trying to hijack, My guild leader is a hunter. The weapon would go to him without anyone bidding against him or questions asked.

[The Cat]

Staying on the thread not trying to hijack, My guild leader is a hunter. The weapon would go to him without anyone bidding against him or questions asked.

You need a new guild.

Also, no offense, but that sounds more like a casual guild than a progression oriented raiding guild.

[Slideshow]

Just one word: SUFFER

no. one word ten times

SUFFER
SUFFER
SUFFER
SUFFER
SUFFER
SUFFER
SUFFER
SUFFER
SUFFER
SUFFER

[Jon]

You need a new guild.

This.