Flame Shock dps

[Zyster]

Ok, so I need a better understanding on why to put FS into your rotation as enhancement.

Im playing around on the dummy with no buffs and I do a FS with no crit on the initial damage and not glyphed and do around 2700 total damage. Crit FS on initial damage then dot with no glyph I do around 3700

Then I play around with earth shock and do around 1800 non crit. With SS glyph and SS on target that would be 2304. Crit ES for around 3500 which with SS on target should = around 4480.

Now take into account that all of this is unbuffed and not glyphed into FS, but IDK if i should glyph into FS considering I'll lose glyph of LL which actually scales well too for the better gear you have and the harder your off hand hits. Being buffed too would of course mean both FS and ES would both be hitting harder making SS benefit Earth Shock more.

So I guess what im wondering is what am I missing? Is it really worth putting FS into an enhancement shamans rotation? If it really is that good to put into a rotation I want to start doing it. I just want to know if im missing something.

[Deleted]

Do the actual maths' it really is quite a simple calculation. Without any FS Glyph in sight FS does more actual damage on average during its 18 seconds duration than Earth Shock. Sure a top end crit might do more for ES than FS but the average damage is more for FS than ES. Its very very simple maths, as far as raid buffs go they affect both spells equally with the sole exception of Fire damage vs Nature damage.

Now take into account that all of this is unbuffed and not glyphed into FS, but IDK if i should glyph into FS considering I'll lose glyph of LL which actually scales well too for the better gear you have and the harder your off hand hits.

I seriously don't know what you are getting at here. LL glyph is one of our WORST glyphs a 10% boost to our lowest dps ability?? Its just poor. So if you have one congrats you've managed to identify why your dps is low.

[Zyster]

Actually my DPS is very high. I was just wondering about FS. Probably really not replacing LL or any glyph af that with it. I was just wondering if I was missing something. Not trying to prove anything >.> /facepalm

[Deleted]

Actually my DPS is very high. I was just wondering about FS. Probably really not replacing LL or any glyph af that with it. I was just wondering if I was missing something. Not trying to prove anything >.> /facepalm

You will note your post count is down to just two. Your crap posted so far and your mates aggressive posting re: a moderator have been deleted. Note its because the whole thread was deleted as they were flame fests that your post count is lower and not because your posts were deleted.

Actually having seen now your other forum posts, which have crap like don't use expertise, use CL rather than LB, use a LL glyph. I wonder what planet you are on you clearly have no clue, sure you might be doing decent dps its not difficult these days to pull top numbers. However you could be doing so much more if you actually bothered reading what those of us that have put countless hours into trying and testing tiny little variations in gearing and priorities etc etc etc, have found out and write about. Get a clue your dps might be decent but it could be so much higher if you got a clue.

[Lumb]

Actually my DPS is very high. I was just wondering about FS. Probably really not replacing LL or any glyph af that with it. I was just wondering if I was missing something. Not trying to prove anything >.> /facepalm

I'd bet my life on the fact that you're doing FAR less dps than you should be doing.

[detramental]

if you think barely scrubbing by = very high dps, then keep doing what you want.
i personally don't second guess what levva spends a lot of time to code into SAA and contribute to many other great add-ons/tools for the enhance community.

this is the difference between a 4k dps enhance, and a 9k dps enhance in a 25man raid.
trust me, i've seen it first hand.

[Zyster]

Hmm well I didnt know the CL / LB thing so im glad I learned that today, and it was a post asking for help with his DPS and I was pretty much telling him what I do, and it works for me very well. You know nothing about my DPS but from what i've read most of the ENH shamans who post on these forum don't do so well so I put in my thoughts to try and help and then I ask a simple FS question to see if im missing anything and instead you make a whole new post with it and try and mock me. And btw. LB/ES/mama/fire nove/flametongue etc.. Doesn't improve off of expertise so hmmm. Sounds like you have a personal problem. I do 9K+ wtf. I had a reason for not gemming exp too like i said AP especially with the t10 4 piece bonuse is crazy

[pomop]

Hmm well I didnt know the CL / LB thing so im glad I learned that today, and it was a post asking for help with his DPS and I was pretty much telling him what I do, and it works for me very well. You know nothing about my DPS but from what i've read most of the ENH shamans who post on these forum don't do so well so I put in my thoughts to try and help and then I ask a simple FS question to see if im missing anything and instead you make a whole new post with it and try and mock me. And btw. LB/ES/mama/fire nove/flametongue etc.. Doesn't improve off of expertise so hmmm. Sounds like you have a personal problem. I do 9K+ wtf. I had a reason for not gemming exp too like i said AP especially with the t10 4 piece bonuse is crazy

Levva is the person who knows enhance for enhance. To be honest, I would not be suprised to find out he works for blizzard and made the enhancement spec. He simply knows everything about enhancement shamans. And you use expertise because missing = 0 dps. Do you enjoy knowing you can do 0 dps on attacks?

however to be clear you do have a point that many of our attacks are spells. Expertise is still very useful because the other half of our attacks use melee. (PS, flametongue procs off of an attack. If you dont hit, flametongue doesnt proc. Therefore flametongue benefits from expertise.)

and ehnance should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever use lava burst, unless you are on heigan or something and are running around not in melee and unable to go to the boss.



edit - Yes, he did answer your question.

Do the actual maths' it really is quite a simple calculation. Without any FS Glyph in sight FS does more actual damage on average during its 18 seconds duration than Earth Shock. Sure a top end crit might do more for ES than FS but the average damage is more for FS than ES. Its very very simple maths, as far as raid buffs go they affect both spells equally with the sole exception of Fire damage vs Nature damage.

[Zyster]

That was a my bad on the i meant LB = lighting blolt, but i know what your saying. But the guy that asked for helped had more expertise then he needed and after listening to him nerd rage id love to go up against him in Enh to see what he has

[Deleted]

40%+ of our dps is white damage, you only use LB when you get 5 stacks of MW you only get chance of a stack of MW when you hit the boss, your WF only procs when you hit the boss, you only get a berserking proc off your weapon enchants if you hit the boss. ALL of those factors and some simple calcs prove beyond ANY doubt that getting capped with Expertise is our number one priority. Far far too much of our dps is lowered if you aren't expertise capped. Hint a miss is zero dps.

So who is it that has the "personal problem", seriously mate I've done the maths, I've written the addons and the simulators that help people understand the maths. I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

I moved this post out of the FAQ as it was essentially a separate topic, although if you look the answer is in the FAQ and indeed debated on the first few pages back at the time that it was new info. I also wanted to clean up the FAQ so that bad info wasn't perpetuated in there.

Gratz on doing 9k dps - now follow the advice and you'll do nearer 11k.

[kudzupo]

Far be it from many of us who have put a ton of time into the theorycrafting and math (Levva, Bar, Rouncer, Eralun, myself and many others) taken from IN GAME data and tested IN GAME to try and show you that you could be doing more.

Please, if you have info that you think is better than the testing we have done, show it to us. Give us your armory, give us some parses (preferrable world of logs) on saurfang and festergut (doing 9k dps on a fight that lasts 1 minute means nothing, which is why I suggest these bosses. I can push 12-13k on a fight that is 1 minute long, but on these fights i tend to fall around 9600-10000). The best shaman in the world on these fights are using the tactics we use and suggest, so if you have something better, show it to us.

We have given you the proofs for the various things we suggest (glyphs, gems, etc.), the burden of proof is on you to show us why your methods are "better".

(this is by no means a "lol theres no way you are right", its an informative query based on claims you are making that the majority would disagree with)

[pomop]

That was a my bad on the i meant LB = lighting blolt, but i know what your saying. But the guy that asked for helped had more expertise then he needed and after listening to him nerd rage id love to go up against him in Enh to see what he has

ah my bad, yeah sorry about lava burst. Its just new enhance think "Kool 6k lava burst pew awesome dps buff!", but its actually a dps loss casting it

But 140 is the expertise you need to reach.

[CanuckBuck]

Hmm well I didnt know the CL / LB thing so im glad I learned that today, and it was a post asking for help with his DPS and I was pretty much telling him what I do, and it works for me very well. You know nothing about my DPS but from what i've read most of the ENH shamans who post on these forum don't do so well so I put in my thoughts to try and help and then I ask a simple FS question to see if im missing anything and instead you make a whole new post with it and try and mock me. And btw. LB/ES/mama/fire nove/flametongue etc.. Doesn't improve off of expertise so hmmm. Sounds like you have a personal problem. I do 9K+ wtf. I had a reason for not gemming exp too like i said AP especially with the t10 4 piece bonuse is crazy

you did 9k+ on what fight? cause honestly you sound like you could barely pull 4k on hodir/twins with your game theories..

[Kyndig]

Probably not the best place for it but i'd like to know too. I tried FS in my rotation (glyphed) and my dps dropped, only by about 250-300 dps but still. I asume i am doing something wrong but really can't figure out what it is. I use SaA to work my rotation and my dps is pretty good. Help please

[Zyster]

Instant Lava burst would be fun but I still think I'd use lightning stuff. I tried linking my armory but it's in my resto gear right now and I tried using WoL but I'm too dumb. I've done a lot of personally testing too and the fact that I was told I'm giving "bad" info was a bit funny. Wow, the guys a mod and does a lot of crunching numbers. That doesn't make someone elses advice wrong. lawl

[Zyster]

you did 9k+ on what fight? cause honestly you sound like you could barely pull 4k on hodir/twins with your game theories..

Ya, maybe afk / autoattacking

[Zyster]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...moon&cn=Zyster

[Deleted]

Instant Lava burst would be fun but I still think I'd use lightning stuff. I tried linking my armory but it's in my resto gear right now and I tried using WoL but I'm too dumb. I've done a lot of personally testing too and the fact that I was told I'm giving "bad" info was a bit funny. Wow, the guys a mod and does a lot of crunching numbers. That doesn't make someone elses advice wrong. lawl

When literally hundreds of people have tested our theories in game and proved them to be accurate. It does make your advice wrong. The onus is on you to prove that all the top Enhancement Shaman are wrong and you are right. We have already got lots and lots of posts and formulae and real in game data proving our figures. Where is your proof? At present you have presented nothing but wild assertions.

To prove your claims is simple next time you go into icecrown type

/combatlog

in game that will turn on your combat logging. When you are finished type it again to stop logging. Now visit www.worldoflogs.com and click on client and upload your data. Then post the link here for us all to see how superior you are and how every other Enhancement Shaman has been mistaken all these years and how our carefully tried and tested data using hours and hours of testing on bosses and on target dummies is wrong.

Seriously mate we aren't just plucking numbers from the air and making stuff up we TEST things IN GAME to PROVE our results. Your proof on the other hand is nowhere to be seen, so all that anyone can tell is that you are a wannabe that is boasting big numbers but too scared to post real results as they either don't actually exist or they won't hold up to scrutiny.

Edit: Your gear is very good and I'd expect you to be doing at least 9k in that, however with a few tweaks and following our advice you could easily add around 1-1.5k to your dps.

[Zyster]

/combatlog

Hmm Thanks, I did not know that. On the other hand. No one said anyone was wrong. STFU and L2 Read. All I stated was to do certain things based off of what I do in my first post to a guy asking for help then asked a FS question and you turned it around to "lalalal I'm right because im Uberpwnpostonelitesjerks so im awesome" and started going off on way more then the simple FS question.

"We welcome genuine seekers of knowledge who want to learn more about the Shaman class."

Hmm take your own advice. I posted something I do and suggested doing AP with the new tier 10 4 piece bonus. Maybe you should try it. I'm sure there hasn't been many test's with the new 4pc bonus

[fakestreet]

I'm guessing this is the DPS you're claiming:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/078hd...?s=3702&e=3978

Which is funny that you didn't link this in the first place since it took all of 2s to find it after knowing your Armory.

Anyways, I know jack and shit about Enh but I'm pretty sure that number is on the low side of things after seeing other Enhance parses on a pretty much Patchwerk-style fight for melee. I know our Enh performed better with like half a Lust (still Sated from Rotface).