Hard modes should actually be hard

[Ryme]

I took the liberty of looking around and this guy has only posted in the hunter class forums so i would say its safe to assume hes a huntard and the only huntard with that name is this one

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Darkelementz

ENJOY! lol its a riot

Not even a Yogg normal kill on 25 or 10 man? Nor a full complete of ToC25 normal? Nor even a Marrowgar 25 normal kill?

Seriously? You're complaining about hard modes?

[baraitanda]

God all you people have gotten troll'd so hard, you should feel bad for seriously posting in this thread

[un_known]

paragon (the guild who pretty much perfected the fight with their alts due to beating it with 20 attempts left on their mains) killed the lich king with about 2 minutes and 15 seconds to spare on enrage. now even with the mechanics of normal mode do you think they could have burned another 40 million health in that time period?? absolutely not. im sure there will be some interesting things added to the encounter in hard mode (that russians guilds screen shots with the purple void zones is an example). so im pretty sure in order for the lich king to even be deemed downable the guild is going to hvae to have the perfect raid comp and everyone pretty much as to be in 277 gear

and same thing was said about anub'arak on heroic 25 man totgc but paragon killed him inside 2 weeks and the gear wasn't full heroic upgrades either, so like i said before,

you never know :P

[MrWiggles]

wasn't there a post by a dev commenting on people complaining about easy content they never actually cleared?

[Kickbuttmario]

I am seriously disappointed with the way Blizzard handled the hard mode options for Uld, ToC, and, so far, ICC. When I think of the word hard, I think of something that creates a complex problem that is different from the normal way of doing something. I consider, for example, multi-dimensional calculus is harder than geometry. The only hard mode that I see fit into what a hard mode should be is Sartharion 3-drake and Flame Leviathan. In that fight, if done the correct way and not zerg'd, changes the simple tank and spank fight into a precision, add managing, endurance, and dps race. Flame Leviathan also falls into the same category. Four tower FL is complex because it took the tank and spank (which can be 2 manned on 10 player, and 5 manned on 25 player) and added special abilities, adds, and AoEs.

Basically, to sum up my argument here, Blizzard has to design hard modes as more than an alternate fight rather than an augmentation of the health and damage output of the bosses. In a way to keep people on their toes and learning the fights, it should be something more than just "you'll have to heal your tank a little more, maybe even bring a third healer." They need to remember that the normal modes are geared towards casual players, and the hard modes are designed for the dedicated, highly skilled and committed players in this MMO.

CONTRADICTION!!!!!

I do understand what you are saying but not everything you say is true.

precision, add managing, endurance, and dps race

Ulduar has only 2 bosses (Algalon and Hodir) where there is an increase of health and damage output but like I said there are a few bosses where hardmodes changes the entire strategy of it. Mimiron is different, everything is done differently, the positioning may be tougher now because of fire everywhere. As well as increased health, and damage output. You try positioning yourselves when everyone is moving in phase 4 and you gotta get them down before timer runs out.

Freya (you are sort of a correct) but because of new spells, people have to have precision since a lot of the fight is now about positioning. Still add managing, and endurance and dps race. No need to explain.

Thorim you get that lady where huge damage is happening, so people have to watch out for more things now, everyone has to be kept alive, still a dps race since his health increased. Again, no need to explain.

Xt-002 did change since no adds came up but it became an intense dps race, positioning yourself and tanking the light sparks, and healing when he does Tandrum. Still no need to explain.

Okay Yogg, is where I think you dont know the encounter at all. Depending on how much keepers you leave up, the fight is more or less changed. Without Freya, positioning happens and you gotta control yourself and not f'd over by touching his beams and what not. Thorim is where ADDS DONT DIE!!! HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT!!! HUH!!!! I KNOW RIGHT, JUST AN INCREASED HEALTH AND DAMAGE OUTPUT !!! RIGHT!!! NO POSITIONING WHATSOEVER!!!!! ><.

Point is, I agree with you about TOGC and ICC but not Ulduar. I wish they went back to the system of Ulduar and OS. Their system with ICC heroic 25 or 10 or TOGC has just gotten out of hand. Just an increased health and damage output shouldn't make the fight harder or easier.

In conclusion, I hope you guys are reading this Blizzard. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would rather prefer the hardmode system in OS and Sarth rather than heroic and what-not. In the next expansion of course

[kaloryth]

Hard modes are hard... when you randomly get 5 second lag spikes throughout the fight. Just putting that out there.

[Kikazz]

Cool story bro can i have your amory link to see how many hard modes you have done please...

[Samurai]

So OP... how many hard modes have you personally done? Honestly tired of the retards who QQ about shit that they can't even kill.

From the Armoury linked earlier the OP hasnt even finished most of the easymodes

[Bakis]

Good old FUN progression is dead in ICC. Progression used to be getting stuck on a boss for quit some time, gear up some more, sharpen the tactics and finally get him down.
Normal mode cannot be hard any longer due to casuals and lets face it, most guilds dont have much trouble with the majority of the encounters in ICC normal and they certainly wont when the weekly nerf bat gets going full speed.

Now im not lobbying for a Sunwell but it could at least be somewhat like BT or closer to it. Most sad thing is that the heroic modes in ICC dont add new mechanics much, basicly the same as normal just that one can get oneshotted if being stupid idling in a fire on the floor or whatnot.

[Teneal]

If the armory link is him then he hasn't even killed 3 of the Ulduar keepers. Silly troll. Too much effort.

[Rurikar]

Good old FUN progression is dead in ICC. Progression used to be getting stuck on a boss for quit some time, gear up some more, sharpen the tactics and finally get him down.
Normal mode cannot be hard any longer due to casuals and lets face it, most guilds dont have much trouble with the majority of the encounters in ICC normal and they certainly wont when the weekly nerf bat gets going full speed.

Now im not lobbying for a Sunwell but it could at least be somewhat like BT or closer to it. Most sad thing is that the heroic modes in ICC dont add new mechanics much, basicly the same as normal just that one can get oneshotted if being stupid idling in a fire on the floor or whatnot.

What you described is progression in casual guilds which hasn't changed. Casual guilds won't be beating all the hardmodes until next expansion.

I swear people complain just to talk about something.

[Bakis]

What you described is progression in casual guilds which hasn't changed. Casual guilds won't be beating all the hardmodes until next expansion.

I swear people complain just to talk about something.

So what you're syaing is that heroics are not much for casuals and that is to a large extent true but you're also perfectly fine with them not having a hard time in normalmode, cos normalmode wont take that long compared to the time they got till next content.

[Kickbuttmario]

What you described is progression in casual guilds which hasn't changed. Casual guilds won't be beating all the hardmodes until next expansion.

I swear people complain just to talk about something.

I know right "all the hardmodes" like anyone will be doing anything of WOTLK when it next expansion comes out. I know right, guilds are not going to get down hardmodes when Blizzard nerfs them to the Core.

[Jayded1]

Only .1% of guilds are doing hard mode ICC. It must be easy.

[Redcrow]

Link your Lich king 25 hard mode Achieve please before you rant about how easy it is

[Garil]

QQ, this game isn't hard enough. See the other bajillion threads on this topic please. Your point has been made, you can stop repeating the same crap over and over again. Go do something else if you don't like it.

[Mumrahte]

I really think most people miss the point of the whole idea that there is a blizzard design team behind the game. They are foremost a company they need to make money. Money = subscriptions when 70% of the people that play wow quit before reaching level 10 (http://www.boosharticles.com/2014/up...leveling-guide) They obviously need to cater to casuals. So they simplify encounters. could they make every fight be only completable with BIS gear and large amounts of RNG luck, of course. This doesn't nessisarly mean the fight is a bigger challenge just harder could they require you to remember 300 abilities on 1 fight each with drastic changes to the strategy involved. Yes. But for the large percentage of the player population NO one would do it. Yes the top 3-5% would say yay we have facesmashing hard modes.

I see this constantly with the way top end guilds cope with limited tries. Blizzard wants to limit the amount of time to increase difficulty (when you can wipe on a boss for ever assuming no RNG issues or gear issues you will get down the boss assuming there is a repeatable strategy). So they wanted to limit the attempts to enforce harder difficulty so what do top end guilds do? they decide that they will level alts and have them run the content just so they can have 40 attempts over 2 characters more face time more experience.

The issue is blizzard has always had exacting standards and while they could spend months fine tuning ultra hard encounters for maybe 100,000 players they would much rather spend time working on the content that the other 25-27% of players actually get to experience. If you want hard wow really isn't the place obviously if you want it to be super hard impose restrictions on yourself or just quit. I'm sorry to say that if every hardcore wow player quit blizzard probably wouldn't notice you're just not a large enough piece of the pie. And people will still enjoy the game.

I mean people who talk about wanting to do hardcore wow fraps a run of ICC full clear on hard modes without any deaths, in the lowest overall gear you can get away with. That would be challenging there just isn't time for blizzard to put into (from a business standpoint) encounters that would satisfy the top 100 guilds without alienating the rest of the player population from those encounters and sadly that is where the money is.

[sicness]

Good old FUN progression is dead in ICC. Progression used to be getting stuck on a boss for quit some time, gear up some more, sharpen the tactics and finally get him down.
Normal mode cannot be hard any longer due to casuals and lets face it, most guilds dont have much trouble with the majority of the encounters in ICC normal and they certainly wont when the weekly nerf bat gets going full speed.

Now im not lobbying for a Sunwell but it could at least be somewhat like BT or closer to it. Most sad thing is that the heroic modes in ICC dont add new mechanics much, basicly the same as normal just that one can get oneshotted if being stupid idling in a fire on the floor or whatnot.

How many guilds have cleared the majority of ICC?

Only 12.75% have killed Putricide, 6.95% have killed BQL, 3.78% have killed Sindragosa and only .77% of all guilds have access to heroic modes. So tell me again how heroic modes are too easy when only .77% of all guilds are actually capable of even trying them.

As I recall Sunwell was closer to 4-5% of all guilds even doing any bosses in them, so far your Sunwell comparison is moot considering even less can even attempt heroic modes atm.

Also when you consider the fact that ONE single mistake from ONE person can ruin a heroic mode attempt, I'd say that's pretty equal if not more difficult than Sunwell. Just because high end guilds have good players who rarely make mistakes and learn how to adapt quickly doesn't mean these encounters are easy.

[Zuthos]

Link your Lich king 25 hard mode Achieve please before you rant about how easy it is

Wow. I've never seen this before.

Anyone else hate that every time someone says something is easy, someone else says "Link you Achievement" Seriously Stfu about that. Have you done it either? What gives you the right? How do you know they HAVN'T? More on topic, I personally am rather dissapointed that 11/12 Hard mode bosses were killed in the first week of them being avaliable. And that 9/12 in the first day. I would have preferred to see the hard modes go more like first 1-3 day 1. 4-6 day 2 Blood princes and Vali on day 3. Queen day 4 or 5. Professor day 6 - next week Saph 2nd week. Lich king 2-3rd week

Instead, money says Lich will probably be downed this week.

[Needalight]

Lol OP you a^&wipe. Nice armory link there!

According to wowprogress, only 101 guilds have cleared normal ICC. that would be....101x25=2525 players out of 11.5 million. OMGOMGG OMG OMG OMG content is sooooooo easy /sarcasmoff. stfu please.

I also like how you have not posted since you got bashed on from the start of the thread.