What Rune Strike should be

[Denalian]

In my experience as a Death Knight Tank (especially in ICC) I've noticed our snap threat is a bit lacking while our sustained TPS is fine overall, it's still very spiky.
A huge chunk of our threat does come from Rune Strike, and in its current form it is very RNG based.
Personally I'd like to have more control of my threat output than relying on lucky dodge/parry streaks for good threat output.

Here's what I'd like to see done to Rune Strike in the near future, also making tanking a bit more interesting, and not just a stripped down/dumbed down version of our DPS counterparts. (we rarely get any of the "fun" talents)

Rune Strike
20 Runic Power Melee Range
Next melee 8 sec cooldown
Requires Frost Presence
Strike the target for 150% weapon damage plus [150 * AP * 10 / 10000].
Can't be dodged, blocked, or parried.
This attack causes a high amount of threat.

[failoth]

In my experience as a Death Knight Tank (especially in ICC) I've noticed our snap threat is a bit lacking while our sustained TPS is fine overall, it's still very spiky.
A huge chunk of our threat does come from Rune Strike, and in its current form it is very RNG based.
Personally I'd like to have more control of my threat output than relying on lucky dodge/parry streaks for good threat output.

Here's what I'd like to see done to Rune Strike in the near future, also making tanking a bit more interesting, and not just a stripped down/dumbed down version of our DPS counterparts. (we rarely get any of the "fun" talents)

Rune Strike
20 Runic Power Melee Range
Next melee 8 sec cooldown
Requires Frost Presence
Strike the target for 150% weapon damage plus [150 * AP * 10 / 10000].
Can't be dodged, blocked, or parried.
This attack causes a high amount of threat.

(150 * x * 10)/10000 = 0.15 * x

[kumduh]

Strike the target for 150% weapon damage plus [150 * AP * 10 / 10000].

If I had 5k AP, 150 * 5 * 10 / 10000 = 750. That's not a very much damage for an 8 second ability.
Making it armor based would be a better idea, so that it isn't a huge issue in pvp.

[Stieger23]

It's fine as it is at the moment in my opinion. Rune strike does a HUGE amount of threat, and if you tank without using it a single time, you will notice that you will end up with pretty good TPS one way or another, around 7-8k TPS in blood spec that is, on singletarget, without using rune strike.

Bullshit. I seriously doubt that you're doing 4k sustained single target DPS in tanking gear without runestrike (a substantial damage booster even without the added threat advantage). Show me a screen shot of a single target boss parse where you don't rune strike once and manage 4k dps and I'll believe that you're hitting 8k tps (This is sustained TPS so without tricks or misdirect).

[Denalian]

If I had 5k AP, 150 * 5 * 10 / 10000 = 750. That's not a very much damage for an 8 second ability.
Making it armor based would be a better idea, so that it isn't a huge issue in pvp.

Problem with making it armor based is pvp DKs have just about as much armor as a tank DK, unless the tank is geared specifically for bonus armor.
Also, the specific numbers can always be tweaked, but finding the right thing to make it scale from without making it too good for pvp isnt easy. Defense is going away in cata, I cant really see a good way to make it only attractive to tanks (apart from the frost pres restriction)

[Zao]

Our snap threat issue will probably be fixed with 3.3.3 (depending on how high the additional threat on IT really is)

And outside of the first 10 seconds it doesn't matter how spiky your threat is, as long as you keep it.

The only way you could make it work would be something along the line of either HP or Avoidance, since those are the only stats that tanks have significantly more than PvP DKs

[CookieEater]

While I can understand sentiments regarding Rune Strike being just something you macro to all abilities, it does it's work pretty good.

[Snowie]

That's not even half, but you get my point, you've got plenty of ways to gain threat without rune strike, and at appropriate gear you will find yourself always, and I mean ALWAYS dodging / parrying something within 1-2 seconds. If you aren't, then it's time to get more avoidance / on-use avoidance trinket (Heart of Iron?).

Ive managed to observe 20 secs once on blood queen of no dodges or parries with my current gear and its not a rare thing, happens a little too frequent for my liking where i get 10 secs or more times of no RS proc's. I wouldnt consider my gear terribad or anything just standard ICC25.

Guild dps have noted that my threat from totgc which was very high has suddenly gone very spikey.

Noted i dont use death rune mastery but i can still easily reach 13k+ without issues provided RNG is on my side.

Here is my armory link (probably in my UH build from doing 5 mans)

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ether&cn=Snowi

[Denalian]

-Death and Decay needs to come off the Rune system.
-Rune Strike needs to be more of a choice, not macro'd and forgotten.
-Pseudo-block in some form, perhaps a talent, to bring us in line with the other tank classes.

These are the top three issues in my opinion.

[Nangz]

-Death and Decay needs to come off the Rune system.
-Rune Strike needs to be more of a choice, not macro'd and forgotten.
-Pseudo-block in some form, perhaps a talent, to bring us in line with the other tank classes.

These are the top three issues in my opinion.

All of those are a bad idea imo except the rune strike one as macroing it to everything is so boring.

Death and Decay- It doesn't need to come off the rune system but a better choice would be to make Blood tap cause your next spell within 10 secs to cost no runes aswell as generate 10 runic power.

Block- We do need it atm but in cataclysm it won't matter. So I can see why blizzard would not make such a change.

[Albert the fish]

taking DnD off the rune system is stupid. there arn't other words for it. DnD on RP system would be just fucking.... i shudder to think of the snap aoe threat most tanks would not have available to them as they sit waiting for enough RP to cast it.

you DnD first for a reason, it creates a base threat production that you build on. without that. only frost has a viable tool for initial AoE pull. unholy would pick it up ok but it'd be tight quarters and the poor fucking Blood tanks would strain harder than they do now if DnD was not an option at the start of every AoE pull

Rune Strike as something other than a macro tool would be nice, im not sure how it'd work out tho. blizzard hopefully is ponder this one

block, we dont really need a mechanic for it, we do just fine right now and with Cata the whole spectrum is getting changed so it'll be more even.

[bondgirl]

dnd is a starter for aoe fights to simply grab the initial aggro aswell as having a sustained base of aggro until it dissapears.
i like the start from the rotation tbh dnd,diseaes,pest and pop rs on the targets with lowest (needed) threat.the only thing there is that we actualy need 3 globals to start tabing(i need to tab as blood, dunno about frost or unholy tanks due to more aoe abilities)

but rs could get some more threat in that case, since its pure rng based it should burn the tps if it hits. i know it got some kind of buff and i dont have big issues in icc 25man tanking but i can imagine newly started dk tanks have problems getting/keeping aggro from overgeared dps.

[Snowie]

then they would have to factor in lowering dps for dk's, as it would be too powerful like that. Unless they made it in frost presence only. But then things are just becoming overly complicated for the sake of aoe threat

[Nangz]

Nobody said about putting it on the RP system. It simply needs to be free but on cooldown.

When the base cooldown is over and you have adds spawn, if you was single tanking a mob, worst case scenario would see you with an additional 10 second cooldown before you could use DnD again.

Every other tanking class has AoE taunts, DK's dont even have an AoE ability on a base cooldown that can be used if they are single target tanking.

DnD - 30 second cooldown, 15 second talented.

That's how it should of always been.

No it doesn't because that gives dk dps a free aoe which would be too overpowered. Especially if they burn their runs fast with FU strikes.

Just keep all the costs the same but change the blood tap thing. If you are getting extra packs of mobs more than once a min your group is fail.

[Keile]

No it doesn't because that gives dk dps a free aoe which would be too overpowered. Especially if they burn their runs fast with FU strikes.

Just keep all the costs the same but change the blood tap thing. If you are getting extra packs of mobs more than once a min your group is fail.

Blizzard already stated that they are considering turning D&D into a tank utility over a DPS ability. They said they may remove the Rune Cost, lower it to only one rune, or do something with Blood Tap.

Odds are they will nerf it to do pitiful damage, but modify its threat by an assload so that you wont see a TPS loss.

[Albert the fish]

don't try to invert the runes and confuse people. it's stupid. in your mind remove all cost from DnD, no imagine you can toss that free spell in during a blank phase instead oh HoWing(unless it's needed)

you gain a longlasting, decent hitting aoe dot every 15 seconds. that's impressive even on single target fights.
trust me, if it was free, talenting to get it fast would be a done by all 3 dps specs


i've always agreed that they should nerf dmg into the ground and toss up more tps, but if they do that than it doesn't even really need to change off the rune system. it'd be worth 3 runes. or maybe 2
maybe we could get a BU spell instead of an FU