Help with my spec please

[Pyke]

I know this topic usually stirs a large amount of debates about just what spec is necessary but I seem to be having more and more trouble holding aggro as dps gets better and better. I don't really know if I'm just undergeared, getting the shaft with dps in pugs, or if I'm just not that good of a tank. Any thoughts or opinions are greatly appreciated.



Heres my armoryhttp://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...La+vie+en+rose

[Garil]

Eh, looks fine to me. What you've done in the Fury and Arms trees is a little odd, but that shouldn't stop you from holding aggro in heroics. Are dps pulling aggro in reasonable situations, or just when they leap in immediately? In my hurry to complete my daily heroic I often pull aggro off good tanks, but I know I'm going to, and I'm not concerned if I do. My plate will keep me alive for the two seconds I'm being attacked before the mob dies. May just be dps'ers with a similar mentality.

[Steakums]

http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc...12521030113321

I'd do something like that..

Personally I don't use Full Shield Spec but to each their own.

The points into Impale and Deep wounds are surprisingly effective for Threat, also Revenge is still a good talent for threat and don't be afraid to help it along with Imp revenge. Also, their was some discussion on Tankspot about using Mocking Blow as a nice boost to TPS, so you might want to go there and read up on it.

Your gear seems okay, so really it's just going to come down to learning to adjust to your dps..also if your not using Vigilance put it on your highest threat dps and it could make a difference.

[Garil]

By the way, are you losing aggro on bosses as well as trash? It looks like you're set up to use cleave as your primary AE threat. I would think constant cleaving would leave you rage starved on trash, which could certainly cause you to lose aggro. TC, Shockwave as AE threat, then tab targetting with SS, Revenge, Dev is more rage efficient. Points in Bloodrage and improved charge will also help you with that rage you need at the pull to lay down good initial threat. I'll often wait till I have a full rage bar to use shockwave because stunning the mobs and having them not attack me for a few seconds leaves me with no rage.

If you're losing threat on bosses, then your spec could definitely be changed. Points in improved heroic strike, and cruelty are what a lot of tanks use for single target threat.

[Battousai]

Glyphs of Vigilence and Devastate effectively make you a threat generating machine. If you're not concerned about survivbility...these help...a lot.

Esseneitally in raids however, you should be getting tricks from rogues and Misdirects from hunters which unless you're asleep at the keyboard should be enough for anyone.

[Pyke]

Ok, it looks as though I may just be a bad tank. I'm glad because that I can fix with practice. I am losing threat on boss fights as well but I use vigilance for that. Usually works unless I'm in 10mans and there are multiple high dpsers that I cant outthreat

Questions:
1. I took Revenge off of my hotkeys awhile ago and never use it. Apparently this was a mistake?
2. I do get rage starved rather easily but I figured the aoe threat from cleave outweighed the downtime between specials. Is tclap and shockwave really enough to hold trash aggro?
3. Judging by what I'm seeing from you guys I should:
-Use revenge
-Focus more on single target threat and using tab to jump to a mob, apply threat, jump to next, repeat, instead of using cleave?
-Rely on deep wounds for sustained threat on a mob once I've switched to another

As always thanks for the advice

[42PETUNIAS]

There's really no reason to have improved cleave in a tanking spec, the only reason being if you've got two tanking specs and you want more aoe threat in one of them. Go with the cookie cutter DW spec. If you really need the help, then go ahead and grab glyph of vigilance, but it shouldn't be necessary. Your threat stats are solid and you've got a good weapon, so the problem is most likely in what you're doing. Make sure you've got heroic strike on every swing when you've got the rage, SS whenever you can, shockwave on cd, and devastate every other gcd. You're right not to use revenge, but don't take if off your bars, you should still be using it when you don't have the rage for anything else.

Other things: Fix your meta and the 20 hit gem in your helm, as well as your weapon enchant. Mongoose is probably the best choice, and it'll give you a bit of a threat boost.

[Pyke]

Get rid of the 20hit?
My hit rating is barely below cap right now. If I took out the 20hit I'd drop even further and miss targets more. Wouldnt that actually lose me threat? Same with my weapon. I thought it was essential to stay hit capped on a warrior

[42PETUNIAS]

I thought it was essential to stay hit capped on a warrior

No.

[Pyke]

How come?

[Steakums]

It's helpful to stay capped until your comfortable with threat..but ultimately you look at the Armories for tanks in Top guilds (Xav, Kungen) and very rarely will you see them Hit or Expertise capped. And really if your rogues and hunters are doing their jobs then you should be able to stay ahead of the game, in regards to threat.

I also find you can drop a lil in Hit but long as your keeping on the high end of expertise you will still have good output of threat. Ultimately it's going to come down to practise and remembering to use key abilities..TC+Shockwave are great for keeping threat on AoE packs, I tab devestate and toss in cleaves as I have rage to do so, re apply TC+Shockwave on cooldown (more personal playstyle on the TC)

When i'm doing 10man ICC i'm usually with a Druid tank or a Pally tank..so AoE trash is all them for the most part..I just pickup stragglers and it works for us.

Hope that helps.

[Pyke]

That helps a lot actually. I just have to keep practicing, like ya said. Using different strategies for different fights, etc.
Now that I have a base spec to go from it's all practice practice practice. Thanks again, everyone that answered

[Vanquisho]

Try take some time where you read all the talent points, then you'll see whats needed etc.

[Pieterman]

specs fine, probably ability usage. work on that.

[Garil]

Ok, it looks as though I may just be a bad tank. I'm glad because that I can fix with practice. I am losing threat on boss fights as well but I use vigilance for that. Usually works unless I'm in 10mans and there are multiple high dpsers that I cant outthreat

Questions:
1. I took Revenge off of my hotkeys awhile ago and never use it. Apparently this was a mistake?
2. I do get rage starved rather easily but I figured the aoe threat from cleave outweighed the downtime between specials. Is tclap and shockwave really enough to hold trash aggro?
3. Judging by what I'm seeing from you guys I should:
-Use revenge
-Focus more on single target threat and using tab to jump to a mob, apply threat, jump to next, repeat, instead of using cleave?
-Rely on deep wounds for sustained threat on a mob once I've switched to another

As always thanks for the advice

As far as being hit capped goes, Steakums was talking more about a raid setting. In a raid, your rogues are using tricks, and your hunters are MDing to help with threat. Not to mention, most of your raid members are pretty competent, and know when and how to dump threat. If I'm not mistaken, you're mostly running heroics, where you often don't have those luxuries. Hit is not bad if that is the case.

As for losing threat in 10 mans, it sounds like your single target rotation may not be that great. It should be Shield Slam, Devestate until SS is off CD or sword and board procs. You can use revenge as well, but right now, devestate is a little better. Don't worry though, revenge is getting a buff and will be back on our hotbars. 8) Heroic strike spam unless you're getting low on rage (which should not happen when tanking a boss). Always use SS when it's up. And of course, use your shield block, TC, demo shout for the damage reduction. But yeah, as far as single target threat generation goes, it's really just 3 abilities right now.

As far as heroic tanking goes, I would continue to leave revenge on your hotbar. It's extremely rage efficient, and in current gear, warriors can often find themselves rage starved in heroics because they're not getting hit much or very hard. Cleave is good for AE threat, but not so much that you get rage starved. You need to have rage for your shield slams which is your biggest threat ability by a wide margin. TC whenever it's off cooldown, shockwave, maybe a few cleaves when you've got lots of rage, and tab targetting to lay single target threat on each mob is the way to hold multi mob pulls. Also, don't be afraid to ask rogues for tricks, and hunters for misdirect. Best way to pull is with heroic throw, charge, shield block while charging, TC, shockwave, then go into your rotation.

Speccing into deep wounds is great for longer fights, like raid boss fights. Not so much for heroics where mobs die in a few seconds.