Arena rating question

[Freshcelery]

I am pretty new to pvp, arena especially and lately I have been doing arenas with friends semi competitivly trying to get 1800 for the weapon and having some fun. We aren't the best comps mage warrior priest in 3s and mage resto in 2's but we are currently 1400/1250. My question is why do we gain approx. 9 points per game when we win against people and then when we lose it shows the other team gaining about 42 points. It is a consistent 9 point gain for us no matter who we win against for example I am in wrathful offpieces with furious main gear(relent pants/hands from voa) and my partner is in pve blues and epics and a few pvp items he won in voa aswell. Today we faced comps that had full relentless including weps and still only gained 9 points and then we lost to teams who were in relent aswell and they again gained 30+ points while we lost 5-12 points. I just dont understand why we gain so little and my opponents seem to gain so much.

Thank you

Freshcelery

[Bulldozor]

If their MMR is much higher than their team rating, they will automatically gain more rating from wins and less for losing.

Team rating gets reset every season, MMR does not. So imagine having to grind your team rating back up to 3000 while gaining 5-10 every time?
Even with 80% wins it would be terrible.

[Kairu]

Team starts at 0, but your MMR starts higher than that. Say the team was just created and then they beat you, they would go 0 => 48.

Alternately, when at a higher rating closer to your MatchMakingRating you will earn less and less, and be able to lose points.

[Pally_Power]

The reason for that is most likely that the teams you are facing have high MMR's and a low team rating, meaning that they will get 30ish points a win until they get closer to that MMR. For you however, your team rating is likely close to your MMR, making you gain less points per win until you win enough to make your MMR go up.

[Freshcelery]

So basically it will take me much longer to get 1800 than a team that had 1800 in the past??

I see how this makes some sense because they have already put the effort and been 1800 before, but now I have to fight their comp, with them having full relent/relent wep and me and my teamate are in furious and if we win we gain 9 and they win and gain 42. which basically makes it so even if i consistently beat a team that had high rating in the past they will most likely still end up reaching a higher rating before me due to them getting 4x the rating per win. I dont want to sound like ime QQing or anything it just confuses me that they would do this and create a massive handicap for new arena players considering we have not only a gear disadvantage but a rating disadvantage which will lead to an even bigger rating disadvantage due to the other teams getting wrathful gear because they get a higher rating easier

[Doctadrew]

Your MMR is based on a number of things. Not just previous seasons and gear, but also how well you are doing this season i.e. W/L ratio.

[Pally_Power]

So basically it will take me much longer to get 1800 than a team that had 1800 in the past??

I see how this makes some sense because they have already put the effort and been 1800 before, but now I have to fight their comp, with them having full relent/relent wep and me and my teamate are in furious and if we win we gain 9 and they win and gain 42. which basically makes it so even if i consistently beat a team that had high rating in the past they will most likely still end up reaching a higher rating before me due to them getting 4x the rating per win. I dont want to sound like ime QQing or anything it just confuses me that they would do this and create a massive handicap for new arena players considering we have not only a gear disadvantage but a rating disadvantage which will lead to an even bigger rating disadvantage due to the other teams getting wrathful gear because they get a higher rating easier

The point of the system I believe was to make it easier for people who have reached a certain rating to get back to that rating, while still allowing difficulty for newer players. The farther you are from your MMR, the more it will fluctuate; the MMR is basically where the game thinks you will perform well at. You can still get higher, but you have to generally play better after you reach a rating close to your MMR, or you can get really lucky with teams.

Those teams stop winning 42 points as they get closer to their level, and once they reach that level they will get the +5, +9 and so on. When the game puts you up against 1800 teams it's trying to assess how well you are, if you win against them repeatedly then your MMR will go up. If you lose, it will try and have you fight teams closer to where it thinks you are and that's when your MMR goes up slower, but it does go up.

The ideal method of progression Blizzard aims for in arena for the casual player is Furious, to Relentless, to Wrathful. They don't want you going from Furious to Wrathful. Some people can do it however, those with strong ability in arena, and others can't.

You can hit 1800 and so on, but it will take longer than a team that has done it in the past. The rate comes at how well you play, the better you do at beating times higher than you the faster you go. You're supposed to face people of equal gear level, with the occasional high geared person to test you, and grind gear from there.

Not only that, but arena has always been more lopsided towards people who have started earlier, you can make it though, even though it may not be as easy as some.

[fishknuckles]

So basically it will take me much longer to get 1800 than a team that had 1800 in the past??

Generally, yes, but only because you're less experienced, and probably less geared. The system isn't "stacked against you" or anything.

Look at it this way. When your team starts the season, you're at 0 TR and 1000 MMR (or maybe 1500, i forget, but it doesn't matter)
When an old team starts the season, they're at 0 TR and 1800 MMR.

Assuming you're equally good, you'll both be winning 48 points per game for at least 20 games or so. If you're BOTH skilled enough to be 1800, both of your MMR's will be around 1800 by the time your team rating even gets to like 400 or 500. Thus you'll continue winning 48 points per game for a while, and it will taper off as you get closer to your MMR, just like the older team's wins/losses.

Really, you should not be looking at the OTHER team's points won/lost. It's based on their team rating, which you might not be able to find out, short of logging onto their server and inspecting them. If my 2200 team re-rolled and beat you, you'd see that our MMR is 2300 or something, but we won 48 points from you. That would seem unfair, but our team rating would, at that point, be a measly 48. In general, the MMR system would try to prevent you from playing us in the first place, but if there's literally nobody else playing, we could theoretically play each other.

[fishknuckles]

The point of the system I believe was to make it easier for people who have reached a certain rating to get back to that rating, while still allowing difficulty for newer players.

I think that is a side-effect. Though I guess I can't know for sure without actually asking Blizz. As I recall, the primary impetus for the MMR system was to prevent 2500 rated players from playing 1500 rated players at all. The way it is now, even at the beginning of the season when everybody's team is 0, you still have 2500 players playing 2500 players, and 1800 players playing 1800 players.